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Winter election III

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Steve, your line ‘The poor are in for a really, really bad time. Best of all, they will have voted for it’ sums it up, they’ve had a rough time since 2010 and unfortunately things won’t change if Johnson gets hold of them again. (Also, instead of saying ‘Best of all’, I’d say it’s ‘Saddest of all’, they’re being duped and don’t realise it).
I would argue that the poorest would end up poorer under Corbyn than under any other PM. His economics have been tried and tested in other countries and afaiaa none have improved the wealth of the poorest in the longer term.
 
I’m grimly fascinated to see how it pans out. The only consolation is that I’m not starting out in a career now. The dream sold was that Britain would become a loose associate member of the EU with a sweetheart deal and none of the rules - no negative economic impact whatsoever. Europe would stop holding us back and pushing us around but we’d hang onto our discount card. I’m struggling to think of such a colossal politically directed, abrupt economic realignment. A few people are going to get very much richer from this, the rest of us will pay.

For the few, not the many.
 
I would argue that the poorest would end up poorer under Corbyn than under any other PM. His economics have been tried and tested in other countries and afaiaa none have improved the wealth of the poorest in the longer term.
Perhaps they haven't. But are they dead? Because that's what's been happening to the poorest at the moment, under the current regime.
 
I think that the tory manifesto is brim full of those things.

EV, when triggered on here you burp out the compound word phrase 'fascistracistxenophobic' (sometimes with a few variations) as if you find the idea that you may sleep with such 'characters' outrageously insulting. But then you tell us that you are going to be voting for a party that will be helping to enable racists, xenophobes, and yes, fascists.

Fascinating.
 
I would argue that the poorest would end up poorer under Corbyn than under any other PM. His economics have been tried and tested in other countries and afaiaa none have improved the wealth of the poorest in the longer term.
They are mainstream economic practices in most of Europe. The spending plans would put the UK in about the middle of the European table, in terms of state spending as share of GDP - just below France, IIRC. They have the support of a great many mainstream economists. Meanwhile there's a consensus amongst mainstream economists that the Conservative Party's austerity program was and is totally bats__t. Have a look:

'Labour has received the firm backing of 163 prominent economists who say the party understands the nation’s deep-seated problems and has devised a “serious programme” for dealing with them.

In a letter published in the Financial Times, the group said Labour’s plans to invest in homes, schools and infrastructure make “basic economic sense”, partly because borrowing costs are at a historic low.

They called for a Labour government to urgently reform Britain’s economy which has, for too long, prioritised consumption over investment, short-term financial returns over long-term innovation, rising asset values over rising wages, and deficit reduction over the quality of public services.

The group, which includes professor David Blanchflower, a former member of the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee, and Victoria Chick, emeritus professor of economics at University College London, savaged the record of the Conservative and coalition governments.

“We have had 10 years of near-zero productivity growth,” they wrote.

“Corporate investment has stagnated. Average earnings are still lower than in 2008. A gulf has arisen between London and the South East and the rest of the country. And public services are under intolerable strain – which the economic costs of a hard Brexit would only make worse.”'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...y-spending-corbyn-boris-johnson-a9218041.html
If you don't like Corbyn and Labour fair enough. But the economic argument for preferring the Conservatives over Labour is without any merit whatsoever. Voting Conservative in this election is like voting for Brexit: it's a values-based decision rather than an economically rational one. Which again is absolutely fair enough. Except that the values here are very explicitly racism, xenophobia, authoritarianism, mendacity.

 
If you don't like Corbyn and Labour fair enough. But the economic argument for preferring the Conservatives over Labour is without any merit whatsoever.

Also look at the worst economic mistakes by UK chancellors since the war:

1. Recession and long tail unemployment of the 1980s caused by 1981 Budget (TORIES).
2. "Black Monday" caused by misguided attempts pegging £ to DM (TORIES).
3. Austerity leading to 10 years of loss of trend growth (TORIES).

Note anyone tempted to reply with any combination of Gordon Brown, selling and gold please please accept an F and see me after class.
 
Quick question please: what do people here think of tactical.vote as a guide to tactical voting? They claim to have been the most accurate in 2017 and got my constituency right when others got it wrong. Any one else have experience?
 
Quick question from me too: Is it true that Labour "Bankrupted the UK in the 1970s" ?
 
Quick question please: what do people here think of tactical.vote as a guide to tactical voting? They claim to have been the most accurate in 2017 and got my constituency right when others got it wrong. Any one else have experience?
I’ve looked up the constituencies I’m familiar with and the advice they’re offering seems in line with both common sense (e.g. no assumption that Lib Dem’s are going to make up 30 points), level of attention they’re getting from canvassers, and impressions from knocking on doors. It seems they’re not putting too much store in polls, which I think is good.

Having said all that the best thing is probably to use your own judgement and to manage expectations, at least according to Dan Davies, who’s just written a very useful article on the topic:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ally-close-races-party-vote-tories-guidelines
 
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Standing Bullshit.......................Standing Bullshit
KS, you have a painterly eye!
 
I think that sometimes you have a real problem with words and their perceived meaning, and sometimes (in my opinion) a lack of perspective. When you took down Bob A's post, you took precisely the same attitude as the People's Front of Judea would have, had they witnessed the "apart from the aqueducts" exchange. Which, of course, you have an absolute right to do – it's your lawn, after all. The quote above is reasoned, but your previous, rather foam-flecked (if I may so) responses on this action do lean into teenage Citizen Smith territory; indeed, the only Che-poster-level buzz-phrase you've ommitted to use is the "running-dog" one, unless I'm mistaken. Above all, I don't think anyone should refer to anyone else as 'fascist' unless they actually know what that means, or have an awareness of how confused it can make the speaker appear. To illustrate this, here are some key points of a historical party manifesto. You'll have no trouble finding its origin:

* The creation of Europe a Nation through a common European government.
* The creation of an elected European parliament.
* The continuation of national parliaments with their authority limited to social and cultural matters.
* Economics to be driven by the wage-price mechanism to ensure fair wages and economic growth.
* The withdrawal of American and Soviet forces from Europe.
* Decolonization with a move to set up single-ethnic governments in former colonies.
* Europe to be defined as mainland territory outside of the USSR, the United Kingdom, overseas territories and around one-third of Africa.

Broadly, that lot would have gained the support of your entire Tory wet-list of "genuinely decent folk" above. Now who's the fascist?
Can you provide the source for the list above? It struck me reading it, that since last there was a Soviet military presence in Europe, millions have been born, grown up, married and had children of their own.
 
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