Stunsworth
pfm Member
Jeremy’s not happy...
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...shuffle-after-labour-split-on-new-brexit-vote
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...shuffle-after-labour-split-on-new-brexit-vote
Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+22)?
- Thread starter TheDecameron
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jackbarron
Chelsea, London
Barry Gardiner is on Marr. He says we are at the point where Labour want a second referendum.
So is this the official Labour stance? asked Marr.
Gardiner talked around this.
So everybody in the Shadow Cabinet are in favour of this, said Marr, apart from Corbyn.
Gardiner didn't say yes or no. What a surprise. Not.
Instead he said the only weapon Labour have got is a vote of no confidence in the government.
Has that cleared things up? I thought not.
Jack
So is this the official Labour stance? asked Marr.
Gardiner talked around this.
So everybody in the Shadow Cabinet are in favour of this, said Marr, apart from Corbyn.
Gardiner didn't say yes or no. What a surprise. Not.
Instead he said the only weapon Labour have got is a vote of no confidence in the government.
Has that cleared things up? I thought not.
Jack
Tony L
Administrator
He’s actually doing quite a good job of exposing Gove’s utter hypocrisy.
Seanm
pfm Member
Looks like one inside source for one bit of negative briefing, one different inside source for another, with a little legerdemain to make it seem like there are multiple sources for both, while the blame for all kinds of skullduggery somehow gets funnelled into the lap of the unions. Great journalism.
As with the Daily Mail the whole point of The Observer is now to get already angry pensioners worked up over their coffee and toast about purely hypothetical outrages. "See what Red Len has him doing now, Beryl!"
maxflinn
pfm Member
Gardiner correctly stated that the only thing that can stop a hard Tory Brexit is a vote of no confidence in the Tory government trying to implement it.
This vote of no confidence put forward by Labour would require the support of remain Tory MPs if it were to be successful.
A general election would follow.
A Tory majority win would mean a hard Brexit.
A Labour majority win would mean either a softer Brexit, or a referendum.
Any votes in such an election not for Labour would help enable a Tory hard Brexit.
Welcome to the world of Realpolitik.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
With Gove`s level of understanding it was probably Pepsi.
kendo
Prussian bot
But Max! In Scotland, when people vote away from the SNP, the Tories Westminster seats increased from 1 (one) to 12 (twelve), 6 (six) more than Labour managed to gain.
Realpolitiks is a chiel that disnae ding...
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
We already know that. The point is Gardiner refused to answer whether or not Corbyn today supports a second referendum.
That is the realpolitik which is splitting Labour and why people are leaving the Party.
Jack
Swamp Thing
Remainiac Terrorist
I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country...
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Without a commitment to a PV, no Labour majority. Which in itself may lead to a PV.
SteveG
pfm Member
Nonsense. It misses out the most likely option i.e. that neither Tory/Brexit or Labour get an outright majority and the SNP/LibDem and others (with maybe getting towards 100 seats) will force Labour to hold a 2nd referendum with Remain being one of the options. So voting for SNP, LibDem or Green in seats where they can win is going to be by far the best option for those who still see remaining in the EU as the safest option. Voting for Labour in seats where they could win and the remain parties couldn't may make tactical sense however - as long as it's not giving Labour an outright majority which would of course be a disaster.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
Yes, as has been mentioned before, the best result for a remainer would be the one they can’t vote for.
maxflinn
pfm Member
How do the Tories not either win a majority, or gain the biggest vote share and are thus tasked with forming a coalition, if, as you expect the Lib Dems and Greens do very well at Labour's expense?
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Well, from what we have seen from Peterborough, and the EU elections, the Tories look likely to lose at least as many supporters to these other parties as Labour, and probably more.
maxflinn
pfm Member
IMO it is simply inconceivable that the Tories would allow the Brexit Party to run in a GE, because the Tories could not then win it.
By that I mean they'd do a deal with Farage which would see his party not putting forward MPs in return for guarantees on the type of Brexit the winning Tory government would go for.
Under such circumstances I see no possible way any type of remain/PV coalition could emerge.
Can you?
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I don’t see Farage going for that, if I’m honest. Too much ego invested in it.
Secondly, not sure he has the resources to put up a candidate in every constituency.
Secondly, not sure he has the resources to put up a candidate in every constituency.
Tony L
Administrator
Any seats that go to a pro-remain progressive rather than an obviously hopelessly conflicted Labour increases the prospect of softening or ideally derailing Brexit.
maxflinn
pfm Member
He'd go for it because his party would also lose votes to the Tories.
The ERG and Farage are ideologically identical. They'll work together.
Maybe not.
kendo
Prussian bot
He would demand a DUP style £1/2/3 billion pound bung for such an arrangement for his party to spend in their constituencies!
Waaait a minute...
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