crimsondonkey
pfm Member
Well summed up.
The TRUTH Why Modern Music Is Awful
- Thread starter DonQuixote99
- Start date
Well summed up.
Weekender
pfm Member
I disagree that there's "masses of great music out there". There's a lot of mildly diverting and not at all innovative stuff. I don't blame anyone for that because IMO and for want of anything original: it's all been done before. It's played out...like Parker in 1954. The forms have been fully explored and cross-fertilized.
Subjective assertion: The best underground music of the past and the best popular music of the past are just better.
Example 1: the first Velvets LP.
Example 2: What's Goin on.
And yes I've heard Kendrick and Kamasai.
Haven't listened to the OPs link.
Tony L
Administrator
One thing I’d throw into the pot here is a key aspect of these is they fit perfectly into their historical timeframe as we view it right now. The VU was the sound of Wahol’s Factory, the sound of ‘60s pop art experimentalism. It was also a total commercial flop and took well over a decade to really find its audience and place in history. What’s Goin’ On was obviously rather more successful and sits as an important protest album that, despite Motown’s real reluctance to release it (they viewed it as commercial suicide!), captured the mood of the time and to this day stands as a classic. They are actually two of my favourite albums so I have nothing to knock them, just perspective. I’d argue that ageing white men on a high-end audiophile forum are likely not best placed to identify which of today’s albums will reach these peaks, though your citation of VU (or for that matter something like Trout Mask Replica, Stooges, much free jazz etc) proves these albums can come either from total obscurity to such an extent they can take decades to fully emerge and find their place in the public consciousness.
I admit I don’t fully understand something like say Kendrick Lamar’s To Pimp A Butterfly, but I do love much of the music and understand it well enough to grasp it is lyrically one of the most complex and multi-layered works I’ve ever heard. I actually had to work through it with an online instruction manual (might have been this) to figure out what he actually means as I exist so far from the culture that it represents both in age and life experience. I am however in little doubt it is a masterpiece, likely one that given time and perspective will happily sit next to the two albums you cite.
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gassor
There may be more posts after this.
Some people just need time to appreciate what's going on at present. My guess is that anyone who came onto the Velvets or protest era Marvin Gaye when they first appeared (ie an old fecker) would naturally appreciate Kendrick Lamar, D'Angelo, St Vincent or anyone of the musical innovators of today. People who go for comfort music tend to stay in a time warp, those seeking innovation are always looking for new stuff.
Another issue is the wide availability of music. When I was young a lot of the time you would buy an album and play it constantly because you had paid for it. I remember John Lee Hooker, Beefheart, Frank Zappa and the Flying Burrito Bros in this way. These days I can listen to practically everything and tend to jump around a lot more without making a real effort to get inside the music. Listening to an entire new album these days is a rarity unless it hits me between the eyeballs like the new Kacey Mugraves or Mitski albums.
A third point is that as an art form ages, innovation becomes less frequent. Eg jazz or classical music.
Another issue is the wide availability of music. When I was young a lot of the time you would buy an album and play it constantly because you had paid for it. I remember John Lee Hooker, Beefheart, Frank Zappa and the Flying Burrito Bros in this way. These days I can listen to practically everything and tend to jump around a lot more without making a real effort to get inside the music. Listening to an entire new album these days is a rarity unless it hits me between the eyeballs like the new Kacey Mugraves or Mitski albums.
A third point is that as an art form ages, innovation becomes less frequent. Eg jazz or classical music.
Weekender
pfm Member
E.g. Western Pop music. It's over 60 years old. E.g. Rap. It's nearly 40 years old... etc, where are the new forms?
Popular music moves in much slower cycles these days. There was so much innovation in the latter half of the twentieth century, then it all slowed down. Grime for instance has been around since the early 00s, its nearly 2020 now, its predecessor 'UK garage' - spanned the second half of the 90s. How long did punk last before it became known as post-punk? Two years? 'Dance' music's rapid progression in the 80s and 90s stopped almost dead by the end of the millennium. The amazing array of genres, each lasting a few years before the scenes died, was akin to the explosion of rock in the 60s. Its the same in America and hip hop. The 80s for hip hop went from its raw beginnings with 'two turntables and a microphone', until they started using synthesizers and drum machines, splicing up samples and rhythms, creating some of the most cacophonous music ever. By the late 80s it became mellower, funkier, and by the mid 90s many declared it dead, really, there hasn't been much real progression since then, good music yes, but either repetitive or just slightly different. Simon Reynolds wrote a book on this 'Retromania', I've yet to read it, but I'm sure its excellent.
gassor
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New forms as I tried to say don't come around so often, and some people still haven't caught up with Rap. I'm certain Grime fits the bill though. It's not an easy listen and some may prefer to get their kicks with BTS! The vast availability of all the music in the pop/rock canon means that people are hearing as much old stuff as new and this also slows up innovation. When I hear about young people going to see Pink Floyd or Echo and the Bunnymen part of me is sad that they are hatching on to old music instead of something new of their own.
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
I have yet to find a way into grime, have tried, honest. I will persevere, pretty sure I will find something. I found it easy to get into Hip-hop/Rap, coming from a soul/soul-jazz/reggae/ska fan. Jazz was a different story and I kept going at this until I found something I liked. I must have listened to KOB 20 or so times before it clicked, now I am discovering stuff on a regular basis.
It is very easy to listen to what you like, similar to comfort food,slippers and pipes, but ultimately I became bored and had to find new avenues to explore.
Bloss
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Listening to Neneh Cherry's show on R6 right now and man is it awful...
Some recent tracks were apparently Ibeyi "Deathless", Sudan Archives "Come Meh Way", Solange "Cranes In The Sky"
If the intent was to reduce it to just ONE chord, no tune whatsoever, and then talk over it with the odd bit of melisma from another singer here and there then they've been successful. It fails to meet a minimum requirement for being called music IMHO! They're calling it "jams" and talking about it as if they were in the presence of talent like Hendrix or Miles Davis or Bach... FFS!
At least Elaine Page has finished on R2 now so it's safe to tune back in....
Some recent tracks were apparently Ibeyi "Deathless", Sudan Archives "Come Meh Way", Solange "Cranes In The Sky"
If the intent was to reduce it to just ONE chord, no tune whatsoever, and then talk over it with the odd bit of melisma from another singer here and there then they've been successful. It fails to meet a minimum requirement for being called music IMHO! They're calling it "jams" and talking about it as if they were in the presence of talent like Hendrix or Miles Davis or Bach... FFS!
At least Elaine Page has finished on R2 now so it's safe to tune back in....
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
Anti-pop. It can't be good if just anyone can like it.
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
I tend to agree, for once Ark, but this is one show. If I had the choice between R2/6, 6 would win for their late night stuff.
R2 is full of dumb DJ's and has beens. go the whole hog listen to Late Junction on 3, I dare you. you may find something that you like.
Bloss
R2 is full of dumb DJ's and has beens. go the whole hog listen to Late Junction on 3, I dare you. you may find something that you like.
Bloss
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
R6 is great much of the time. An afternoon of The Beatles last week was fab! R2 is mainly good after about 7 in the evening and whilst the continual "Sounds of the seventies" etc can be rather predictable it is at least good music and "mostly harmless". I wish they'd sack Steve Wright though.
R6 plays some most interesting stuff at times... it's not everyday you get to hear Icelandic surf rock.. with lead theremin! I kid you not!
Don't know if it even counts as "dance" but the few I can think of which I like are Massive Attack, a bit of Trainspotting era Underworld, Tricky, Portishead and Chemical Brothers... love Massive Attack, rest in small doses.
The number 1 soul brother James Brown... now that's what I call dance music!
R6 plays some most interesting stuff at times... it's not everyday you get to hear Icelandic surf rock.. with lead theremin! I kid you not!
Don't know if it even counts as "dance" but the few I can think of which I like are Massive Attack, a bit of Trainspotting era Underworld, Tricky, Portishead and Chemical Brothers... love Massive Attack, rest in small doses.
The number 1 soul brother James Brown... now that's what I call dance music!
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
Good choice of dance music I must say, came as a bit of a surprise.
As for JB, I often feel better than James Brown, and long may it continue.
Bloss
gassor
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Some people appear to assume that complexity makes for good music. As any prog-rock fan will secretly admit to his mum when she is tucking him up in bed at night - that is bollocks! One issue with today's music though is that it would pass the old grey whistle test of being hummable after one or two plays, so what will be played in supermarkets in 20+ years time to provide an aural comfort zone (surely not 'Like a Virgin' with one of the most horrible vocals ever recorded 
).
).
gassor
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Chris as it is unlikely that any of us has seen the inside of a club for 25 years so I doubt you'll do much dancing to Trip Hop. So the only places to get in the groove will be birthdays and weddings. For these you'll need a good supply of Tamla, Stax, Disco and Northern Soul recordings. Mix them up; Four Tops, the Tempts, Evelyn Champagne King and Dobie Gray. Then you can get your kicks Out on the Floor - "Yeah, yeah, yeah, babe's it's out of sight"
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Some people appear to assume that complexity makes for good music. As any prog-rock fan will secretly admit to his mum when she is tucking him up in bed at night - that is bollocks! One issue with today's music though is that it would pass the old grey whistle test of being hummable after one or two plays, so what will be played in supermarkets in 20+ years time to provide an aural comfort zone (surely not 'Like a Virgin' with one of the most horrible vocals ever recorded
No way!! It has no tune.. never mind hummable after 2 plays. And yes complexity is good. That's where it's really at man! I love Charlie Parker for the immense complexity of it.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
I well remember in younger days after imbibing all sorts of substances announcing loudly that "I feel better than James Brown!" These days my hope is to feel better than James Bolam.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
I hated clubs even when I was 18 and would avoid them at all costs... If only there were night clubs which played jazz, prog and old soul and served real ale at pub prices till 4am they would have a customer...
Good music choices though Gassor... now that's dance music!
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
The middle-aged sort of old fart in the clip claims young people are listening to rubbish and it was all better in his yoof. Even better, he brings in "scientific evidence" to back his points (he seems to assume the quality of pop music can be measured). That part is at least faintly original, in a barmy sort of way. Oh, and pop is too loud. He sounds a bit like my mother, and even she now admits to quite liking some of the Beatles' tunes.
I'm definitely in the old fart category, but even I realize that, amid the dross, there is quite a lot of music being produced now that I prefer to music produced in the 80s (a period that included a high percentage of dross), and that some of the music that I don't like is likely to stand the test of time.
I'm definitely in the old fart category, but even I realize that, amid the dross, there is quite a lot of music being produced now that I prefer to music produced in the 80s (a period that included a high percentage of dross), and that some of the music that I don't like is likely to stand the test of time.
gassor
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I think a lot of people would struggle to find tunes in Charlie Parker's work
. Parker is a true musical pioneer who can leave me breathless with his virtuosity, while country boy Hank Williams is much simpler with great tunes and wonderful lyrics - I love them both.