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Who's had good results from upgraded power lead II

BE718 said:
I have asked many times for anyone on this forum to come up with suggestions as to what technically these boutique mains cables are improving.

So far deathly silence apart from the mention of reducing RF, for which I suggested a much more effective method. These comments were independently echoed by JohnW, a respected electronics designer.

If you have any suggestions then I am happy to discuss.

Its not arrogance to be technically informed, and so far the only alternative seems to be the answer is beyond science!

I just prefer not to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden.
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A couple of flaws in your reasoning:

1. I cannot , with any real confidence, offer a technical explanation for the effects expounded...I can certainly guess, but notwithstanding, this in no way affects the validity of empirical results, viz it makes the sound more pleasing to listen to

2.Nobody is suggesting ( apart from you) the conflation of being technically informed with arrogance. What is arrogant is your implied position that your knowledge is complete and cannot conceivably be improved

3. Your allusion to fairies really does expose your approach...presenting the issue as a choice between extremes, and is really quite patronising

I believe you are just trying to appear clever, without success I might add

Simon
 
Ragaman said:
My offer stands to anyone who can test without prjudice. It will cost the return postage in the uk.

It is not a wind up, it is a genuine offer as this question arises in every thread such as this, the last metre has no effect, now it can be tested, where is the wind up.
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So you'll send them to BE? I'm sure, despite how some of his comments come across, his testing will be entirely impartial.
 
clivem2 said:
Keith, that's a very fine nuance. You agree that cables can change the sound of a system. If that system sounds better to the listener as a result of c cable change then I would say SQ has improved for the listener. In a system with bloated bass for example, my bass-light Nordost mains cable my be just the ticket.
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I agree increasing the capacitance of the cable enough,may roll off the treble a little and subjectively sound better, but you could roll off the treble and achieve the exact same result, by toeing out the loudspeakers, increasing the absorbtion in the room, the tiniest bit of EQ ( tone control) all of which would be much cheaper to implement.
Keith.
 
Ragaman said:
Of course it will, maybe read the above post for confirmation.

Do you honestly see this guy admitting he is wrong if the measurements changed during testing, come on now.

I would not trust anyone with such arrogance in one's own abilty based on nothing as far as i can see other than personal claims here, with any cable i own.
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Classic !

So who do you think would be suitable to test your cables?
 
It looks as though we have a shabby situation where BE is questioning the 'science' whereas those in the opposite camp are just happy to attack the man.
 
cooky1257 said:
With lots of clinical trials to back that up you don't need to try it yourself before accepting the proposition.
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You still need to try it to see if it suits...as with any medication there can be side effects which may or may not occur with specific individuals. The only way to know is to try it.
 
clivem2 said:
You still need to try it to see if it suits...as with any medication there can be side effects which may or may not occur with specific individuals. The only way to know is to try it.
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Ok I'll leave this here. Equating mains leads with tried and tested meds is silly and ironically in snake oil territory.
 
cooky1257 said:
It looks as though we have a shabby situation where BE is questioning the 'science' whereas those in the opposite camp are just happy to attack the man.
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I don't think BE really questions anything. At least not the knowledge and expertise he is sure he has.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
Proposition 1: some cables are in fact offerings of rank snake oil, and it is hysterically pitiful that the purveyors find gullible-but-rich marks willing to fork over four-figure or higher prices for them.

Is there anyone willing to dispute the truth of proposition 1?
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I think you may have lost the plot somewhat. An audiophile mains lead is a luxury product and not some commodity bit of wire. It is what is associated with luxury products that makes some of them worth four-figure sums to some rich people. Technical performance is not the be-all and end-all for most audiophiles in fact it seems to be largely irrelevant to a fair few.
 
cooky1257 said:
Ok I'll leave this here. Equating mains leads with tried and tested meds is silly and ironically in snake oil territory.
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There's no snake oil in saying side effects from drugs show differently by individual. This is what clinical trials show. Just as a cable with different electrical input/systems/rooms/listeners can result in varied changes or no change. Applying a fixed item (ie a drug or a cable) to varied environments (systems or humans) will give varied results.
 
h.g. said:
I think you may have lost the plot somewhat. An audiophile mains lead is a luxury product and not some commodity bit of wire. It is what is associated with luxury products that makes some of them worth four-figure sums to some rich people. Technical performance is not the be-all and end-all for most audiophiles in fact it seems to be largely irrelevant to a fair few.
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Some people like to boast they have the most expensive everything , the sound system cost thousands and it is so good I have a mains lead worth more than your car . blah .blah
Silly price cables are made for these people whilst manufacturers laugh all the way to the bank
 
<moderating>

Ragaman & BE718: I advise backing away from this argument or you will both be removed from the site for a period of one month. You are both entrenched at the polar extremes and appear to have zero understanding or respect for the site AUP when it comes for ad hominem, insult or arrogance. You are a matched pair and will be moderated as such.
 
clivem2 said:
There's no snake oil in saying side effects from drugs show differently by individual. This is what clinical trials show. Just as a cable with different electrical input/systems/rooms/listeners can result in varied changes or no change. Applying a fixed item (ie a drug or a cable) to varied environments (systems or humans) will give varied results.
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So where is the science in the mains cable design, where is the 'clinical trials' of said cable? We know there is pharma / molecular science in developing the compounds/ formulations in meds, we know there are extensive trials to establish efficacy and metrics that record it.
 
cooky1257 said:
So where is the science in the mains cable design, where is the 'clinical trials' of said cable? We know there is pharma / molecular science in developing the compounds/ formulations in meds, we know there are extensive trials to establish efficacy and metrics that record it.
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The science of cables within boundaries is well understood but because cables are not being ingested by humans they only need to be safe in terms of shock hazard and show they pass their specified current safely. My experiences is that mains cables rarely have an effect on the sound of my system but I'm open the possibility they will have greater effect in other systems.
 
h.g. said:
I think you may have lost the plot somewhat. An audiophile mains lead is a luxury product and not some commodity bit of wire. It is what is associated with luxury products that makes some of them worth four-figure sums to some rich people. Technical performance is not the be-all and end-all for most audiophiles in fact it seems to be largely irrelevant to a fair few.
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It appears to me you actually question only the 'hysterically pitiful' part of proposition 1. That bit is, I readily admit, emotional opinion, and I'm very willing to add a note of qualification:

Here then is Proposition 1.01:

Some cables are in fact offerings of rank snake oil, and it is hysterically pitiful*, that the purveyors find gullible-but-rich marks willing to fork over four-figure or higher prices for them.

* or otherwise regrettable

Can you and everyone accept Proposition 1.01?
 
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