Time to use a decent player, Winamp, Foobar, Mediamonkey perhaps ?
Some configuration info here...
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20686
MDAC first listen (part XIII)
- Thread starter fusion5
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Time to use a decent player, Winamp, Foobar, Mediamonkey perhaps ?
Some configuration info here...
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20686
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Not a problem mate, one thing im good at is researching hehe, thanks for at least pointing me into a direction.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Time to use a decent player, Winamp, Foobar, Mediamonkey perhaps ?
Some configuration info here...
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20686
No thanks, one thing none of those third party media players have is a proper and easy to use layout for media presentation/filing.
Might try XBMC.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Have you got XBMC bit perfect ?, i managed to find out what dom was suggesting, the program is called reclock but takes a bit of figuring out.
Winamp has an excellent media library implementation IMHO
sam_cat
C'est Crounchifique!
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Yes, using Wasapi. Passes the tests.
Sam
Thanks, just tried 0.9x vs A.x and found 0.9 is much better, A.x seems to perceive more bass but lacks the detail of mids and highs that 0.9 has.
At least i wont have a flashing nightmare now, i used to be a killer for android flashing haha.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Thanks for your input, having a go of this now.
finesensations
pfm Member
Are you saying ALL the v0.9x versions sound the same?
And ALL the vA.0x versions sound the same?
How long did you try each one for?
Did you try different filters etc.?
Obviously, personal preferences and your choice of partnering equipment/room come into play so it's not really surprising some of us prefer different (rather than better) firmware versions.
All IMO.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
I used the latest only from the A series, I did however try both 0.90 and 0.99 which I expected and found to be the same. Used the same filters overall, I gave enough time to make a decision which I have learnt and gained experience from over time.
Most find 0.9 to represent a more realistic output and the latter to be just more brassy or the appearance of more bass but overall clariity is removed.
finesensations
pfm Member
So why give the impression you had tried them all (not very helpful)?
Fine if you don't want to say how long you listened (is it a secret?) but you may benefit from trying them all individually and listening for an extended period, certainly hours but better over several days.
You seem to be unduly influenced by other people's opinions when you say 'Most find 0.9 to represent a more realistic output and the latter to be just more brassy or the appearance of more bass but overall clariity is removed.'
Best to listen to all the versions yourself using your own ears and make up your own mind.
All IMO
So I've had a chance to test the Rothwell xlr attenuators; I really can't hear much (if any) difference with them in the chain as opposed to having the M-dac turned down 10db; there are certainly no audible benefits to having them in there.
Perhaps in a more revealing system the differences would be more apparent but as it stands, they're going back as I can't justify the cost of keeping them. Atleast I know now.
Perhaps in a more revealing system the differences would be more apparent but as it stands, they're going back as I can't justify the cost of keeping them. Atleast I know now.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Thanks for the input on this, i wouldn't have thought there would have been a degradation which is good.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Im sorry if i gave that impression but i felt i gave all the information needed and it wasn't exactly a thorough review or any kind of review, merely just a opinion. From stating i compared between 0.9 to 0.99 i made the conclusion from information gathered all the threads i have gone through, that there were no adjustments made in the area of audio output but merely just features and bug fixes. On top of that i know that from the 0.9x to A.x that the entirety of the code was changed in order to clean up and improve flashware features and space (i think) and nothing in the notes state a change in audio yet again, from past post's i believe that john and dom expected a change in audio but didn't know how exactly and that they are trying to figure out what is causing it.
If you have any information stating that flashing every single different firmware has a difference in sound please be my guest and present your information.
My opinion as well.
There are potential changes with the audio with all of the updates IIRC
Several people have commented on an audible difference between 0.90 and 0.99 with more comments that 0.90 is the better of the two (again, IIRC)
So there's no simple divide between 0.9x and A.x
John's observation seems to be that any sound changes are due to secondary effects within the circuit, and particularly the DAC chip itself rather than any deliberate attempt to change sound quality
And hence, every version has the potential of different sound quality. And preferences will be individual and system dependent
Several people have commented on an audible difference between 0.90 and 0.99 with more comments that 0.90 is the better of the two (again, IIRC)
So there's no simple divide between 0.9x and A.x
John's observation seems to be that any sound changes are due to secondary effects within the circuit, and particularly the DAC chip itself rather than any deliberate attempt to change sound quality
And hence, every version has the potential of different sound quality. And preferences will be individual and system dependent
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
Thanks that's good to know
So I've spent a couple of hours this evening comparing filters and software versions and thought I'd write down my observations while they're relatively fresh
I'm going to own up to only recently getting hold of an MDAC. I'd held out on the promise of a BDAC
And a few months back to tie me over while deciding which route to follow, I bought an Arcam rdac which was an improvement on my previous dac, but not good enough
It's 2nd hand and I believe well run in by the previous owner, and has been left permanently on since I've got it (as is all my kit). On first getting it I spent a few hours listening to it through my existing single ended connections. Then I swapped to the balanced connections (the G02 is fully balanced) and that was an extremely substantial change - I wouldn't go back to unbalanced.
For the most part I've stuck with A.05 to date, based on the observations of others in this thread, and this was the first time I've had a session trying to work my way through some of the options
So tonight the overall sequence was
A.08 - lots of playing with filters & phase
0.90
A.05
I didn't try anything with D3E
The complete kit list
Marantz CD6000OSE + clock mod -> 75ohm RCA & cable -> coax1 input
MDAC -> balanced 0.5m
Meridian G02 -> balanced 5m
Hypex ncore monobloc -> biwired 0.75m
Cyrus CLS70
Music
Hifi systems generally do simple well, and then struggle with complex. Therefore deliberately using two of my rogues gallery CDs - often unlistenable, and a known trigger of of things I dislike in hifi and of CDs in particular.
Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Give it away
Franz Ferdinand - Take me out
So mostly I was listening to sibilence, cymbal splash and treble distortion on over modulated and interestingly produced (!) recordings
Overall prior to this evening I've been sticking with/have gravitated towards OT XD, simply using the recommendations of others as a starting point
I used A.08 to play with the differences between filters and phase. They're subtle. Take Me Out seemed to benefit most from Minimum Phase under A.08 and 180 deg phase. Overall the 3 OT filters seemed most effective with subtle treble differences between them. I did limited playing with filters with the other versions, and used OTXD as the point of reference between all 3
A.08 feels like it has a sloping downward response from treble to bass (bass lower amplitude). And hence possibly feels like it has the most accentuated treble in terms of frequency response. The treble seems smooth - but there's lots of it. A tone control would be useful(!)
Following all the recommendations in here I installed 0.90 (OTXD) - played the opening to Give It Away and immediately replaced it. It has probably the best frequency balance of the 3 versions but it has an additional spitty treble on not present in the other versions - I couldn't live with it and would probably have rejected the MDAC outright if this had been my introduction to the MDAC. Also possibly a bit 'wooly' - less distinct image than the others, less easy to pick out individual lines
And so to A.05. The best compromise for me. Good frequency balance. Remarkably smooth treble (still lots of it on these recordings). Sibilance as well controlled as A.08 but frequency balance much better. A quick play with OTXD and Minimum Phase filters and phase, and ended up erring towards OTXD for both recordings
Note these observations were on some pretty harsh recordings (to my ears) but I want to be able to live with rubbish recordings as much as good recordings because I want to listen to the music.
Stating the obvious, this is all to my ears within my system, is completely unreproducable in double blind tests or three weeks on Tuesday, and will all sound horrible to someone else, but ends up with the settings that most satisfy me whether through reality or pacebo
All ways round I'm sure there are still a few veils to be lifted from my system and I'm very interested to hear the effects of the power supply mods
The problem with a session like this is you spend your time listening to the kit and not the music - hopefully I can ignore the kit for a bit now
At some point I'll try bypassing the Meridian, but that's how I switch to vinyl
I'm going to own up to only recently getting hold of an MDAC. I'd held out on the promise of a BDAC
And a few months back to tie me over while deciding which route to follow, I bought an Arcam rdac which was an improvement on my previous dac, but not good enough
It's 2nd hand and I believe well run in by the previous owner, and has been left permanently on since I've got it (as is all my kit). On first getting it I spent a few hours listening to it through my existing single ended connections. Then I swapped to the balanced connections (the G02 is fully balanced) and that was an extremely substantial change - I wouldn't go back to unbalanced.
For the most part I've stuck with A.05 to date, based on the observations of others in this thread, and this was the first time I've had a session trying to work my way through some of the options
So tonight the overall sequence was
A.08 - lots of playing with filters & phase
0.90
A.05
I didn't try anything with D3E
The complete kit list
Marantz CD6000OSE + clock mod -> 75ohm RCA & cable -> coax1 input
MDAC -> balanced 0.5m
Meridian G02 -> balanced 5m
Hypex ncore monobloc -> biwired 0.75m
Cyrus CLS70
Music
Hifi systems generally do simple well, and then struggle with complex. Therefore deliberately using two of my rogues gallery CDs - often unlistenable, and a known trigger of of things I dislike in hifi and of CDs in particular.
Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Give it away
Franz Ferdinand - Take me out
So mostly I was listening to sibilence, cymbal splash and treble distortion on over modulated and interestingly produced (!) recordings
Overall prior to this evening I've been sticking with/have gravitated towards OT XD, simply using the recommendations of others as a starting point
I used A.08 to play with the differences between filters and phase. They're subtle. Take Me Out seemed to benefit most from Minimum Phase under A.08 and 180 deg phase. Overall the 3 OT filters seemed most effective with subtle treble differences between them. I did limited playing with filters with the other versions, and used OTXD as the point of reference between all 3
A.08 feels like it has a sloping downward response from treble to bass (bass lower amplitude). And hence possibly feels like it has the most accentuated treble in terms of frequency response. The treble seems smooth - but there's lots of it. A tone control would be useful(!)
Following all the recommendations in here I installed 0.90 (OTXD) - played the opening to Give It Away and immediately replaced it. It has probably the best frequency balance of the 3 versions but it has an additional spitty treble on not present in the other versions - I couldn't live with it and would probably have rejected the MDAC outright if this had been my introduction to the MDAC. Also possibly a bit 'wooly' - less distinct image than the others, less easy to pick out individual lines
And so to A.05. The best compromise for me. Good frequency balance. Remarkably smooth treble (still lots of it on these recordings). Sibilance as well controlled as A.08 but frequency balance much better. A quick play with OTXD and Minimum Phase filters and phase, and ended up erring towards OTXD for both recordings
Note these observations were on some pretty harsh recordings (to my ears) but I want to be able to live with rubbish recordings as much as good recordings because I want to listen to the music.
Stating the obvious, this is all to my ears within my system, is completely unreproducable in double blind tests or three weeks on Tuesday, and will all sound horrible to someone else, but ends up with the settings that most satisfy me whether through reality or pacebo
All ways round I'm sure there are still a few veils to be lifted from my system and I'm very interested to hear the effects of the power supply mods
The problem with a session like this is you spend your time listening to the kit and not the music - hopefully I can ignore the kit for a bit now
At some point I'll try bypassing the Meridian, but that's how I switch to vinyl
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
I might give a.05 a try.
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