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Boring music or boring hifi?

dave said:
I think so. I didn't "get" Bob Dylan until I heard him on my current hifi. I tried him over the years on my previous rigs as well as other's rigs and never "got" him. The first time I played him on my newest rig back in '95 he suddenly clicked. Go figure...
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All my various Hi-Fi are FAIL then is it. I have never 'got' Bob Dylan at all.

How much does one need to spend to reach this Audio Nirvana? Will Nad and JPW not hack it there?

DS
 
Lake Jorgen said:
This is my experience exactly. A great set up makes it easier to start liking different kinds of music. It makes it easier to "get" the music.

A different example: I got a demo at a high end shop some time ago. The same Cowboy Junkies song (CD) on two completely different set ups (both at least in the 8.000 UKP territory.)

First one was a Leben valve integrated with Zu Druid speakers. Sound was fantastic – and everywhere! But the Cowboy Junkies sounded ... well like junkies actually! Both sound and instruments were all over the place – and while it was quite a fun trip, with lots of detail (burritos?) flying around – I really didn´t get the song/melody.

Next up was transistor amps from MBL (If I remember correctly) with Neat speakers. This was totally different. Not at all as trippy. The details were there but not all over. No sound to be impressed by. But I did "get" the song. It was actually a simple blues.

Now, Cowboy Junkies did indeed sound more different from other bands and genres in the Leben set up. With transistor/Neat it sounded simply ... well like a band playing a slow blues.

To sum up: I agree with Tony that a good set-up gets out of the way, but which one of the above mentioned did just that?

My notion is that the Neat system got out of the way the most.
It made the musical intention come through; it made the music sound like music – and not trippy "sounds".

Maybe all great set ups in ONE regard sound exactly the same. They make music sound like music – no matter the genre.

Cheers!

Lake
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the thing is the brain makes up for a lot of things so the second time you play something the brain has already 'put 1 and 1' together this then makes you get 3.....things invariably sound better the second time.

these sales techniques are well known to hi fi manufacturers and dealers.

regards
darryl
 
I know that, but the difference remained switching back to Leben/Druid. And actually – I think the seller was more into selling me the valve set up. He's definately not "flat earth".


Lake
 
how do you know which presentation of the 2 hi fi systems is the correct one.
i think you are saying you had a preference for the presentation of one or the other....
what component was making the difference, the speakers or the amps?

darryl
 
interesting as cowboy junkies themselves use lots of valve guitar amps and lots of valve studio processing.
makes you wonder doesn't it!
 
dave said:
I think so. I didn't "get" Bob Dylan until I heard him on my current hifi. I tried him over the years on my previous rigs as well as other's rigs and never "got" him. The first time I played him on my newest rig back in '95 he suddenly clicked. Go figure...
Click to expand...

This is my experience exactly. A great set up makes it easier to start liking different kinds of music. It makes it easier to "get" the music.

A different example: I got a demo at a high end shop some time ago. The same Cowboy Junkies song (CD) on two completely different set ups (both at least in the 8.000 UKP territory.)

First one was a Leben valve integrated with Zu Druid speakers. Sound was fantastic – and everywhere! But the Cowboy Junkies sounded ... well like junkies actually! Both sound and instruments were all over the place – and while it was quite a fun trip, with lots of detail (burritos?) flying around – I really didn´t get the song/melody.

Next up was transistor amps from MBL (If I remember correctly) with Neat speakers. This was totally different. Not at all as trippy. The details were there but not all over. No sound to be impressed by. But I did "get" the song. It was actually a simple blues.

Now, Cowboy Junkies did indeed sound more different from other bands and genres in the Leben set up. With transistor/Neat it sounded simply ... well like a band playing a slow blues.

To sum up: I agree with Tony that a good set-up gets out of the way, but which one of the above mentioned did just that?

My notion is that the Neat system got out of the way the most.
It made the musical intention come through; it made the music sound like music – and not trippy "sounds".

Maybe all great set ups in ONE regard sound exactly the same. They make music sound like music – no matter the genre.

Cheers!

Lake
 
Sorry about that – have no idea how I posted it twice. To much trippin on Junkies perhaps ... :)

Your argument on Cowboy Junikes using valve amps in the studio is not relevant, I´m afraid. Many musicians use numerous distortion effects for their instruments for instance – but for that sake you wouldn´t use a distorted amp in your set up.
 
i didn't say i would.

but i am just pointing out that no one knows what 'it' should sound like, even the musicians.....
what makes you so sure you are correct?
 
Of course I´m not 100% sure which is most correct. It was just my own subjective conclusion.

Even I am seduced sometimes by systems that offers fantastic "sounds", but in the long run I prefer systems that makes it easier to "get" say Bob Dylan or music I never cared to listen to before.

If a system does both – spiffing!
 
i'm not sure i get this 'get' thang....it's a bit like someone saying i like systems that 'boogie' when listening to some johnny burnette that's fine but i don't want ligety to 'boogie'.....
 
I don't think systems should make everything 'easy listening' or 'toe tapping' - some music is meant to be difficult; some music engages the head rather than the heart.

But the hifi shouldn't make a piece of music unenjoyable on whatever level that enjoyment lies - whether that's simple foot-tapping stuff, deep meaningful lyrics, complex musical structures, or minimalist noodling.
 
Lake Jorgen,

I'm not following your recent post on the Cowboy Junkies, therefore, asking for clarification.

Are you saying that the Leben/Druid combo coloured or distorted, lets say, the notes / tonality / timbre of the song? Or are you saying it added (and perhaps subtracted)?

And the MBL/Neat combo did nothing?

Confused further that the MBL/Neat allowed you to "get" the song without being "impressed with the sound."

Can you explain further so I better understand your position and take on this.

Thanks.

- David
 
i don't really remember hearing a hi fi system that puts me off listening to music as long as it wasn't broken or just really badly put together in a poor room acoustic.

it's like i hate listening to music on headphones when i am walking along, it seems alien to me.
i wouldn't say it's the gear that makes me feel this way it is very obvious that it is solely my subjective choice...
 
darrylfunk said:
i'm not sure i get this 'get' thang....it's a bit like someone saying i like systems that 'boogie' when listening to some johnny burnette that's fine but i don't want ligety to 'boogie'.....
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Actually, I don´t find "boogie" or "foot tapping" to be good words for it. It´s more like getting the meaning of the music, how the notes are connected to a meaningful "whole". This factor is especially important when listening to more complex music … modern classical music like Bartok or Ligeti for instance. Of course, making music out of the notes is the job for the musicians primarily. But that is obvious.

Cheers
 
RDAVID said:
Lake Jorgen,

I'm not following your recent post on the Cowboy Junkies, therefore, asking for clarification.

Are you saying that the Leben/Druid combo coloured or distorted, lets say, the notes / tonality / timbre of the song? Or are you saying it added (and perhaps subtracted)?

And the MBL/Neat combo did nothing?

Confused further that the MBL/Neat allowed you to "get" the song without being "impressed with the sound."

Can you explain further so I better understand your position and take on this.

Thanks.

- David
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Hm ... with the Leben/Druid combo I was impressed by the sound and details but the information didn't seem to come out with the same timing as the MBL/Neat combo.

(To clarify … I didn't buy any of the systems)
 
sideshowbob said:
Sorry, I overlooked your post.

Pretty much everything else - historical context, authorial intention, the physical act of playing, you name it. Sound is simply the medium used to construct what we call music, the result is something more than sound, and can't be explained merely by reference to its sonic building blocks.
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But if you don't know the historical context or authorial intention (and I doubt many listeners do) then all you are left with is the sound.

I listen to music for pleasure not as some research project. Indeed folk music, which is my favourite music, often has no identifiable author and often dubious or at least equivocal historical provenance. What it sounds like is all.
 
well i think bob is saying that regardless of the 'sound' the music has a language and dialogue/story just in the construction of the music.
for instance a conductor can read a score and know by education the music.
the sound itself is something else and also something that no listener has a reference too.
in other words it is the listener who is assembling the sound of the music in their own brain.
although bob may not have meant that at all......:)

cav,
i very much doubt that it is the sound of folk that has ensured you like it, it is the music's 'language' that is speaking to you and that is what is it's addictive quality.
you are finding it to have a meaning to you as a person.
 
Darryl,

the thing is the brain makes up for a lot of things so the second time you play something the brain has already 'put 1 and 1' together this then makes you get 3.....things invariably sound better the second time.
Click to expand...
Since getting good cans I've noticed that exact thing several times -- i.e., hearing a bit of extra detail on the cans that I had never heard before through my speakers, yet the next time I listen to the same piece on the speakers I can now hear the extra detail.

I'm not sure what the term for it is, but you get a pretty convincing demonstration of the phenomenon if you've ever downloaded a few tracks from a sine-wave speech site.

Now listen to the first clip again.

Here's another. Listen again in the same order -- SWS, original, SWS.

Joe
 
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