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System pics 2017

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What none of these plots take into account is the non liearality of the human ear. Having a nice flat response measured by a microphone is not what we hear. The ear is more sensitive to certain frequencies than others. The last thing you want is a flat response from a speaker.
 
You want a loudspeaker with a flat response on axis ( smooth and even off-axis which mirrors on-axis) when measured anechoically, your room will usually reinforce bass nd it’s furnishings absorb/diffuse high frequencies hopefully creating a nice downward sloping target curve.
Keith
 
Foxman50 said:
What none of these plots take into account is the non liearality of the human ear. Having a nice flat response measured by a microphone is not what we hear. The ear is more sensitive to certain frequencies than others. The last thing you want is a flat response from a speaker.
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Er...nope. Yes the ear is non linear. That does NOT mean that you should make a speaker to do the same thing - you would get double the effect!

The old Loudness button did simulate the response to try and make low level listening sound more like louder listening. You see the non flat response of the ear is different at different volume levels. The old Fletcher-Munsen curves from many decades ago showed this well.

In an ideal world a flat response microphone would take the music signal and carry it unaltered to an amplifier that reproduces the sound through a flat response speaker - the ear would then 'hear' what the microphone heard.

Of course, that does not happen in the modern world - the reproduction chain is vastly more complicated than that ideal.
 
Foxman50 said:
What none of these plots take into account is the non liearality of the human ear. Having a nice flat response measured by a microphone is not what we hear. The ear is more sensitive to certain frequencies than others. The last thing you want is a flat response from a speaker.
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Whatever the ear/brain does is totally irrelevant.

If you stand in front of a bird singing in a hedgerow in the countryside, with a combine harvester 50m back, and record it with the world’s best microphone (let’s imgaine a perfect recording), then an exact reproduction of what hit the microphone subsequently coming out of the speaker (let’s imagine a perfect speaker in a perfect room) is your best bet of feeling like you are standing by a hedgerow in the countryside.
 
Cesare said:
Can we have more pictures of scruffy front rooms rather than these designer spaces to make me feel better about my gaff?
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I refer you to my post #1188. Though I will eventually tidy for the momentarily, and unnaturally, tidy pic in due course.
 
radine said:
I took delivery of a pair of Paul Coupe's custom Tannoy crossovers last week for my MG15s. The build quality is amazing and they sound as good as they look. I couldn't be happier.

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Those crossovers look like works of art.:cool:
 
Whaleblue said:
I refer you to my post #1188. Though I will eventually tidy for the momentarily, and unnaturally, tidy pic in due course.
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Well that does give me some comfort, but it's still pretty low on the piles of records/books/musical instruments/general detritus that my front room contains... I'll see about some new photos, it's been a while since i've posted. I'll see what has changed since last time.
 
Cesare said:
Well that does give me some comfort, but it's still pretty low on the piles of records/books/musical instruments/general detritus that my front room contains... I'll see about some new photos, it's been a while since i've posted. I'll see what has changed since last time.
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Yeah, don’t worry, all the piles are at the other end of the room.
 
matt j said:
You'll have to get some pictures up and what you think of it, I only have experience of the Class A models so will be interesting to see what you think.
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Well, the Sugden vintage gear arrived. Maybe it's just me but I quite like the power amp's school physics lab battery looks. The fact it was made in the 1970s a couple of hundred metres away from our house adds to the charm.

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How does it sound.....well the phono stage is clearly not of the standard I'm used to. I gave up after a few tracks. I would imagine my cart output is too low and completely incompatible. CD into the aux input though is another story altogether. It is a little bit grainy in the treble at times and isn't as refined in the mid/treble area as the Naim system, but certainly nothing that can really be criticised. It has a clear quality to it and sounds lovely with a nice soundstage. As for the bass.....it is wonderful. Far better than the Naim 72/Hicap/2x135. So much so it makes you wonder where the Naim bass is. Old man Sugden drives the music along with punchy, tuneful bass notes that are making me want to run every CD I have through it. Everything seems to be transformed. The preamp does have a bass equaliser knob, but a tiny nudge either way is all that is ever needed to optimise how the music sounds. I can't understand why they aren't more popular. I know the theory that such circuits have a minor detrimental effect, but it does allow fine tuning so that all albums sound at their best.

So where do I go from here? If I could keep the Sugden bass with the Naim upper octaves I'd be a very happy man. Any suggestions would be welcome. I don't want to add a subwoofer though as I have no room and don't think amps as renowned as 135s should need one in my size of room when a 40 year old amp can give me the effect I'm after.

Everyone says the Sugden A51 is even better than the P51. I'll keep my eye out for one of those.
 
Looks cool! I’d try attenuated leads or phono plugs between the CD and Sugden pre to see if that loses the treble edge (may well be clipping as it wouldn’t be expecting a 2V source) and for the sake of making a lead I’d try the Naim pre with the Sugden power and see what that brings. Almost always with vintage kit te power amp is a lot better than the preamp as we now expect a preamp to do a lot less (no tone, filters etc) so modern ones are far less complex.
 
Tony L said:
Looks cool! I’d try attenuated leads or phono plugs between the CD and Sugden pre to see if that loses the treble edge (may well be clipping as it wouldn’t be expecting a 2V source) and for the sake of making a lead I’d try the Naim pre with the Sugden power and see what that brings. Almost always with vintage kit te power amp is a lot better than the preamp as we now expect a preamp to do a lot less (no tone, filters etc) so modern ones are far less complex.
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This - and if still not good enough consider a service if you like the retro looks - I do, beautiful :)
 
I was going to say, try pairing it with the Naim pre as generally speaking I don't think the C51 is up to much, glad you like it though, it does make you wonder how far we've actually come in all these years since.
 
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