Superfi gone

[Mullardman]

Except that I've worked with several coming in from the outside (the private sector - the real world) and you worked for one (or more) of them.... I wonder who might have a more balanced view... hint, it's not you!

Anyway I will leave it there as I doubt I'm going to change your mind.... another problem with council workers is they are very insular to change!

The only thing you are correct about is that I won't change my mind.

You are the one who is trying to blame local councils for the failure of Superfi.

You generalise that ALL councils are useless and all council workers are insular and resistant to change. This is obviously wrong to anyone who knows anything about the change which has been imposed by Central Govt on local councils and their workers. Something you clearly have zero knowledge of. Did it occur to you that they are also bound by rules and procedures simply because they are charged with the effective use of public money?

As for your typical but weak 'Real World' jibe. I've worked in both sectors. Have you?
And we've all seen how effective the Private Sector is at running publicly funded services. The failure of numerous 'outsourcing' projects by Serco, Crapita et.al has just poured public money iinto the hands of the Tories' mates and made services worse. but the bosses still got their bonuses.
'Those in glass houses...'

For your info I have, over a 50 year period, worked in many different industries in both public and private sector. I've seen the best and the worst of both and I've seen the damage wrought to both by Govts, especially Tory Govts who mostly adopt the same simplistic line as you.

Just trying to blame 'greedy, useless councils', for the failure of what many on here see as a pretty ineffective and badly run company is a bit feeble.... don't you think?

And by the way... Local Councils are also subject to Audit, although our wonderful Tory Govt, recently flogged off the Audit Commission to some bunch of privateers and turned it into a 'Limited Company'. That should please you, but if the private sector does as well at Audit as it has interfering in other public sector areas it doesn't understand then look out for another failure a la Crapita, Serco, Circle, Carillion etc.

That's 'yer 'real world'..

And.. for what it's worth, I've also worked in hi-fi retail..

 

[Mullardman]

It's a changing market, cuts or no cuts. To be successful one chooses a new business model or improve the one already in place, excuses does not bring good results only action does. Tough but true.

In the case of private sector organisations this is generally true, although many private sector organisations are happy to go Govt for handouts whilst simultaneously moaning about cash being put into local service delivery.

Not quite sure why you quoted me.. I was talkling about local councils and the legal/auditing/regulatory constraints and service deliverey imperatives they face and then only to give a background to why some..might increase business rates in response to cuts. Councils have limited room for manouvre and are closely audited and regulated. It follows that the ' inefficient council' meme is a myth, trotted out by all sorts when it suits them.

 

[cctaylor]

The current business rates model is broken. We do need to find a new way of funding local councils which reflects the the world as it is now.

 

[Stunsworth]

You are quite correct & I think I am losing it as I'm sure I've been on their website. They don't appear to stock the Brio or any speakers less than £300 so doesn't help my friend. I have no idea who makes decent kit at the entry point. Dali speakers, any good? Any views on amps?

Elac Debut from Richer Sounds.

https://www.richersounds.com/elac-debut-b5-2-black.html

£250, the larger standmount is an extra £50. Not heard them, but the reviews have been very good.

 

[jtrade]

Awhile back I watched the YouTube link somebody posted here of Mike Ashley in front of a Commons Select Committee last year : given his reputation, I thought he spoke a surprising amount of sense about what's needed to revive the high streets, including a tax on any business that does more than 20% of its business online. He said that as it stands, the high streets are already all but dead for all the obvious reasons, IIRC #1 internet shopping, #2 too high business rates, #3 lack of free parking.

Just to add to my own post, #4 the move to "luxurious" (for want of a better word) shopping centres with validated parking and everything in one place, including food and activities for children. Also, look at how smart IKEA were from a very early point, providing reasonable, inexpensive food (especially for kids : IKEA in Genoa used to have an organic pasta meal for kids for €1, as well as the usual, free, supervised play area).

And, almost totally off topic, so sorry, IKEA in Italy serve Italian standard coffee & brioches (Italian machines etc), otherwise no self-respecting Italian would go there ! This last comment is slightly on topic, because it shows how a successful international business modified one part of its usually unchanged model to accommodate a necessity of one particular market.

 

[tiggers]

It's a changing market, cuts or no cuts. To be successful one chooses a new business model or improve the one already in place, excuses does not bring good results only action does. Tough but true.

Yep

The only thing you are correct about is that I won't change my mind.

You are the one who is trying to blame local councils for the failure of Superfi.

You generalise that ALL councils are useless and all council workers are insular and resistant to change. This is obviously wrong to anyone who knows anything about the change which has been imposed by Central Govt on local councils and their workers. Something you clearly have zero knowledge of. Did it occur to you that they are also bound by rules and procedures simply because they are charged with the effective use of public money?

As for your typical but weak 'Real World' jibe. I've worked in both sectors. Have you?
And we've all seen how effective the Private Sector is at running publicly funded services. The failure of numerous 'outsourcing' projects by Serco, Crapita et.al has just poured public money iinto the hands of the Tories' mates and made services worse. but the bosses still got their bonuses.
'Those in glass houses...'

For your info I have, over a 50 year period, worked in many different industries in both public and private sector. I've seen the best and the worst of both and I've seen the damage wrought to both by Govts, especially Tory Govts who mostly adopt the same simplistic line as you.

Just trying to blame 'greedy, useless councils', for the failure of what many on here see as a pretty ineffective and badly run company is a bit feeble.... don't you think?

And by the way... Local Councils are also subject to Audit, although our wonderful Tory Govt, recently flogged off the Audit Commission to some bunch of privateers and turned it into a 'Limited Company'. That should please you, but if the private sector does as well at Audit as it has interfering in other public sector areas it doesn't understand then look out for another failure a la Crapita, Serco, Circle, Carillion etc.

That's 'yer 'real world'..

And.. for what it's worth, I've also worked in hi-fi retail..

Look chap, you seem to be ranting on about the Tories a lot and getting all frothy over how your experience is more valid than mine or anyone else's. Firstly I am a Labour man and get your beef with central government and especially Tory central government, but secondly I am also a realist and it's never as simple as blaming any one party or organisation for all the ills of another. In my experience working with at least 6 separate local authorities in the last five years they have a massive amount of room for improvement in the way they do things and I stand by what I say about their workforces which is not only my observation, but that of many others.

Your point about Capita, Serco etc. is not really valid as they are public sector in all but name getting the majority of their funding from the public coffers. When you get into the area of smaller proper private businesses working with the councils (like ours) you will find that the story I am telling is pretty much universal. If these organisations much like the NHS were made properly accountable for the way they manage their 'business' the world would be a better place. And no that doesn't mean I want them all privatised and profit making, I just want common sense to prevail.

Reflecting that back on the high street argument if councils and the government really want to save the high street in terms of having at least a certain number of physical shops in the future they need to work together to find a way to let small retail businesses with on site premises operate profitably enough to make them viable and that does not equate to already crippling rents and rates being ever increased to cover the shortfall left by other retail businesses going to the wall as obviously even the stupidest of politicians must be able to see that is not a viable long term business model!

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

Yep


Look chap, you seem to be ranting on about the Tories a lot and getting all frothy over how your experience is more valid than mine or anyone else's. Firstly I am a Labour man and get your beef with central government and especially Tory central government, but secondly I am also a realist and it's never as simple as blaming any one party or organisation for all the ills of another. In my experience working with at least 6 separate local authorities in the last five years they have a massive amount of room for improvement in the way they do things and I stand by what I say about their workforces which is not only my observation, but that of many others.

Your point about Capita, Serco etc. is not really valid as they are public sector in all but name getting the majority of their funding from the public coffers. When you get into the area of smaller proper private businesses working with the councils (like ours) you will find that the story I am telling is pretty much universal. If these organisations much like the NHS were made properly accountable for the way they manage their 'business' the world would be a better place. And no that doesn't mean I want them all privatised and profit making, I just want common sense to prevail.

Reflecting that back on the high street argument if councils and the government really want to save the high street in terms of having at least a certain number of physical shops in the future they need to work together to find a way to let small retail businesses with on site premises operate profitably enough to make them viable and that does not equate to already crippling rents and rates being ever increased to cover the shortfall left by other retail businesses going to the wall as obviously even the stupidest of politicians must be able to see that is not a viable long term business model!

However the following points remain facually correct:

1) Over the last couple of decades the level of statutory responsibilities placed on (English) councils has increased in scope, and implied cost.

2) Their ability to raise local taxation has been 'capped' and controlled by Westminster.

3) Local business rates (and other taxes) are dodged by internet retailers, thus competing on a unlevel basis with local retailers, and the effect is to reduce council income from business rates as local retailers do less trade or close down.

4) Councils are essentially required to 'tender out' work to private organisations. I've long lost count of all examples of this reported in PE where the result is a level of waste and cost far worse than direct labour. (And of course, being able to use direct labour becomes moot if 'out-sourcing' means they've all been 'let go'.)

So the reality is that both Councils and local businesses are damaged by the way internet retailers can dodge business rates, etc. Just as we as ordinary taxpayers expecting to have an NHS, etc, are harmed in a parallel way by the dodging of other forms of tax.

 

[Ibbots]

Local councils do not set the business rates, which are calculated based on a historic and somewhat artificial market value and a multiplier set by the Government. They do have some leeway in applying reductions, I am not sure what the constraints are, but the only scheme I have encountered was to assist new retail businesses opening in a city centre using BR reductions to offset wages of new jobs created. It was funded by the EU. Councils' can and do use BID levies on town centres on top of BRs - some have been successful in improving the environment (physical and business).

The basis for setting the BRs means that, in effect, poorer and struggling town centres are subsidising the successful, improving locations. A gross simplification but mostly correct. One example I have direct experience of is a former Arndale Centre where the only way the "evil" landlord could attract anything other than local traders as tenants to a distinctly unattractive (from a retailers' point of view) Northen town was to not only charge no rent or sevice charge but sudsidise the rates payable. Inevitaby the local businesses failed due to the rates burden, lack of turnover/footfall despite the "evil" landlord agreeing rent reductions and assistance.

My local town Bolton is a good example of what Councils can do to improve town centre retail, investing in improvements in the high street, a strong economic development team and the ability to borrow a lot of money using shares they hold in Manchester airport. The Council has just bought the failing former Arndale Centre in an effort to make that work, somehow.

 

[Woodface]

It's a complicated world, there are winners & losers. The high St is an issue which will take time to resolve, it will ultimately result in less retail, more leisure & housing

 

[Disbeliever]

Yes, that is true.

If the high street shrinks does not that then place even more burden on those who survive, in terms of business rates? (be it edge of town or not).

Councils still require a certain amount of income I guess.

Councils are the big problem with inefficient overpaid staff chief execs, earn more than the PM. Also this foul Government ( Labour even worse) wastes far too much money with again overpaid Civil Servants etc. overseas aid must cease.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

Yes, AIUI the business rate is redistributed via a central Government assessment. The basic idea has been that the more affluent areas (in Council terms) can then subsidise the poorer ones. A few decades ago a much bigger fraction than now of Council income tended to come from central funding. However as this has fallen, the domestic rates have been 'capped', and local funds have been expected to do more. For example, the shortfalls in funding of the NHS has been (allegedly) covered by assuming that Council 'social care' will step in.

Thus Councils have been required to do more, whilst getting limited funds. In political speeches this is presented as "efficiency savings". In reality - in my direct experience - it means that the NHS and Social people pass the buck on to whatever 'charity' support they can find. Often sparse and sometimes not really qualified for what is expected.

This has a particular impact on groups with serious problems like mental illnesses. But gets covered by the H2G2 principle:

"It was a golden age when everyone was rich and no-one was poor... well, no-one worth mentioning, anyway!"

Loss of retail shops is just one symptom of a wider problem, brushed aside with the common "Hidden hand of The Market" excuse. i.e.

Economists routinely use the term "Hidden hand" or its synonyms to mean "God" or "void" or a null label, covering the reality.

The increase in well-paid "Executives", etc, of Councils has stemmed from the thought-system that 'private' ways are 'better'. i.e. being well paid demonstrates someone is skilled and working hard. Failure of commutation wrt cart and horse, or even of any link! 8-] See PE ad naus...

 

[AndyU]

At the end of the day they were a mediocre shop with poor staff selling nothing special brands in a space with lousy acoustics. No good reason for them to survive, and no need to blame capitalism/councils/margaret thatcher/young people nowadays/the internet. Just read that one of the biggest problems facing apple shops is how crowded they are.

 

[TonyScarlett]

In all this debate about how & why Superfi went bust & whether they deserved to survive or not an important point seems to have been missed. It is widely recognised that the younger generation aren't really interested in HiFi as we know it, if there are no dealers on the high street selling "starter HiFi" for the younger generation then where on earth are the future customers for hi end dealers like Sound Cynergy going to come from?

 

[Cereal Killer]

They will be buying online, just as my generation ( late 40s ) do now.

Also this issue is a UK thing and the fact we only respect a very narrow field of manufactures has contributed considerably, there’s a whole world of very decent kit that never see's the UK light of day ...... simply because the import taxes kill viability. Plus Brexit is the final nail in the high street consumer outlet coffins.

 

[Tigerjones]

Found the Birmingham store a bit grotty but did buy a Ortofon cart from them last year. I won’t miss them in any way.

 

[paul darwin]

Woodface,

For clarification Moorgate Acoustics do stock the Brio and have every product that we make on demonstration.

 

[Mullardman]

Councils are the big problem with inefficient overpaid staff chief execs, earn more than the PM. Also this foul Government ( Labour even worse) wastes far too much money with again overpaid Civil Servants etc. overseas aid must cease.

Deep.

 

[Cereal Killer]

My ex-wife worked in city regen for a few years (bradford CC) the department was run by a 60+ year old (scottish woman) who was paid £200K ish per year. and left with a massive pension.
the department did feck all but walk around town and complain about the amount of litter on the streets yet were happy to go for 2-3 hour lunches and claim it back on expenses. I even recall them going to IKEA to buy office bins, apparently .... The head often went to europe to see what other cities were doing to tackle their issues.... generally for a two weeks every quarter. Bless, hope she didn't suffer in such heat, heard it not too good for the Scots.

 

[pickwickpapers]

T I guess Richer are moving a bit more upmarket these days too, e.g. the new Cambridge Edge stuff, and I even saw a valve amp in the window of the Manchester store last week! Looked decidedly Chi-Fi, but it certainly had valves!

what does 'Chi-Fi' mean?
something that is inherently 'not hifi' because it's made in China?
Or just crap. Because it's made in China. ?

 

[TonyScarlett]

They will be buying online, just as my generation ( late 40s ) do now.
Fair point, unfortunately this will just speed up the demise of smaller specialist HiFi companies. In another thread currently going on I wrote that in 1988 I bought a Proton D540 amp over a NAD3020 after auditioning both at the suggestion of the salesman at Movement Audio in Dorset where I was living at the time. If the bricks & mortar shop didn't exist I would never even have heard of the Proton, let alone buy one of their products. I can think of several instances where something similar has happened. The point is if online becomes the only way to buy HiFi then only a few large companies will survive as few people will take a risk buying online from an unknown company.