Tigerjones
Bagpuss
I didn't say it had increased. The clue is in what I wrote, Brian.
Should Ched Evans be playing professional soccer?
- Thread starter doctorf
- Start date
I didn't say it had increased. The clue is in what I wrote, Brian.
Rack Kit
pfm Member
I agree that the mob wouldn't be heard if he was applying for a job in a fast food joint but it's a poor choice of words to describe what's happened.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Oh, I know exactly what you said and it was typically nothing really. I expected sarcasm and pedantry and you dive straight in with both.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
He's a young man. I can't imagine how I would have handled the media at that age under positive circumstances let alone in this situation.
The people conducting the witch-hunt worry me far more than Ched Evans. He won't get a job anywhere, not even a fast food joint if they get their way.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
Having read the link and looked at the two words that you imagine are so important, it seems to me that you cannot say what they relate to and therefore they have no relevance. As they are they change nothing. Your last sentence should be deleted.
Rack Kit
pfm Member
I'm as uncomfortable about the witch hunt as i am about what happened between the girl and those involved that night.
It would be more accurate say you don't want to know! You've made your mind up.
Does the fact she's alleged to have tried this previously not introduce any doubt?
Do those tweets look like the work of a distraught rape victim?
Why should that be deleted?
gassor
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Anything you say about the two words is pure inference, they could relate to anything. You cannot state categorically they relate to the incident.
should be deleted because as things stand you have no grounds for making such a nasty and bitter assertion. Two people have had their lives wrecked not just one.
Not sure which 2 words you're referring to. Have you seen the bragging "Win big" tweets?
We'll have to disagree on that one. You have your opinion, I have mine based upon :
- Night porter listening in, heard no protest.
- She is allegedly known to have tried the same stunt before.
- Those tweets scream opportunist, not victim.
- She has been attacked by female rape victims & accused by them of being a disgrace to them.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Evans was convicted and denied leave to appeal. So the criminal case is very clear; he is a convicted rapist and the issue is not whether he is guilty or not. His CCRC application notwithstanding.
He has served his sentence and, as an important principle, should therefore be allowed to continue his life, including his right to work. Although I note he has not actually completed his sentence totally and remains on license and required to attend parole, etc. which is why he cannot play for a foreign club
However, a conviction for a serious crime is not consequence free. And if you work in a business where reputation and publicity matter -- football is pretty much show business -- then this is especially so. So I think it unrealistic to expect his career to resume as before and the reputational damage he brought upon himself is clearly going to have commercial implications with regard to sponsorship and the like. Nobody wants to see a picture of a rapist sporting their corporate logo.
I am far less comfortable with the twitterstorms and petitions as this seems to deny the important principle of having served one's sentence. It's one thing if nobody would offer him a job but actively seeking to stop him from accepting a job willingly offered is, I think, an obvious wrong at odds with our principles of justice.
He has served his sentence and, as an important principle, should therefore be allowed to continue his life, including his right to work. Although I note he has not actually completed his sentence totally and remains on license and required to attend parole, etc. which is why he cannot play for a foreign club
However, a conviction for a serious crime is not consequence free. And if you work in a business where reputation and publicity matter -- football is pretty much show business -- then this is especially so. So I think it unrealistic to expect his career to resume as before and the reputational damage he brought upon himself is clearly going to have commercial implications with regard to sponsorship and the like. Nobody wants to see a picture of a rapist sporting their corporate logo.
I am far less comfortable with the twitterstorms and petitions as this seems to deny the important principle of having served one's sentence. It's one thing if nobody would offer him a job but actively seeking to stop him from accepting a job willingly offered is, I think, an obvious wrong at odds with our principles of justice.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
"Win big" is exactly the 2 words. But where are they tied into the accusation of rape? Can you show me where the words relate to her pursuing a false accusation of rape.
The whole case is complex, but unless the verdict is changed when examined by the Criminal Cases Review Commission I haven't read anything that makes me think the jury got it wrong, but it must have been an extremely difficult decision. Had the case been dealt with under Scots Law there is a good chance from what I can see that the verdict would have been; not proven.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
Very well stated.
MVV
pfm Member
Oldham are a disgrace! Imagine the stupidity and incompetence it requires to manage this whole situation so badly. If I were their sponsors I would stay away anyway even though they didn't sign Evans just because they have clearly demonstrated they haven't got a clue how to manage a business. I simply don't believe the death threats excuse. For once I almost feel a bit sorry for the daft twat.
Maybe she bought a scratch card
I just feel it's a great shame this material wasn't available to the jury.Not Proven would surely be the right verdict here.
Tigerjones
Bagpuss
It's impossible to respond to you, Brian. I shall refrain in future.
Good post, Matthew.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
But "this material" is so vague as to be meaningless and one wonders if it would be admissible anyway. Vague innuendo is not really a defence.
Besides, if she is meant to have entrapped him how come she had no memory of the rape? Surely it would better suit her plan to recall some damning aspects that would support her charge?
I am also no expert on snagging oneself a rich footballer, but aren't you supposed to get them to marry you rather than get them sent to jail?
Well apart from it not being a verdict available in English law, the jury finding him guilty and a panel of 3 judges denying him leave to appeal.
Tigerjones
Bagpuss
I'm a bit on the fence with the Ched Evans affair. On the one hand I respect his legal right to ply his trade after leaving prison but I didn't want him back playing for the club I support - Sheffield United. He was a great forward and I have no doubt we would have been promoted, if what happened hadn't of happened towards the end of that season. The whole affair is all starting to smell a little Lance Armstrong, in my opinion.
I do find it rather bizarre that his girlfriend's dad is bank rolling his campign. Given the circumstances, it seems an odd thing to do.
I do find it rather bizarre that his girlfriend's dad is bank rolling his campign. Given the circumstances, it seems an odd thing to do.
SteveG
pfm Member
Technically I think that Not Proven isn't an alternative to a Guilty verdict anyway - it's supposed to be an alternative to a Not guilty Verdict. In Scottish law if they don't think the evidence supports a Guilty verdict there is a choice of Not Guilty or Not Proven (the latter leaving open the option of a retrial if further evidence comes to light). In English law then if there isn't enough evidence to support a Guilty verdict then the defendant has to be found Not Guilty (whether the jury things they did it or not).
That might not be the way a jury chooses to apply it in practice though!
The denying leave to appeal isn't a factor in the guilty/not-guilty bit either I think - the judges denying leave to appeal review the process and the guidance from the judge as well as if new evidence is available. They don't themselves dispute or agree with the finding of the jury as I think that'd be something the appeal court would do if it got that far.
SteveG
pfm Member
That's one of the two really bizarre things in this case - the other being the irony of some of the folks that don't want a rapist playing football again making threats of rape against the families of those clubs considering employing him (although whether those "threats" are anything more than statements like "how would you like it if your daughter/wife/sister was raped" I don't know).