No More Meat.

[matt j]

Have lost a lot of weight and increased protein intake over the past 18 months due to weight lifting. That being said I haven't increased meat intake as I'm usually all for quick meals and meat always takes time, if I do eat meat it is usually chicken breast or fish and the very occasional beef mince but not often.

To be honest I can take it or leave it.

 

[foxwelljsly]

It always confuses and amuses the hell out of me that people won’t eat red meat, but will eat fish and white meat.

Fish are either dragged from the water, eviscerated while fully conscious and then “discarded “, presumably to die from the piscatorial equivalent of shock, or alternatively they are just dragged from the water and suffocated/crushed to death amongst their brethren.

In the UK poultry are despatched in the exactly the same way as mammalian farm animals – stunned, throat slit and left to bleed out.

People wear leather shoes and belts, and eat dairy products. A cow has to give birth every year or so to produce milk – where are the calves going? Where are the cull cows, and other livestock, going?

Vast areas of the UK – lots of Scotland, The Peaks and The lakes, the moors in the SW – they are all, without exception, products of livestock production. There’d be rather few views if it was all covered in scrub and open woodland. Sure they could be grazed by bullocks or single sex herds so that there was no young stock, and the tax-payer could pay to run it all.
The effort ebbs and flows, but there are plenty in the native pony societies that try to make eating Dartmoor, Exmoor and other pony meat, acceptable and popular - it could be the saviour of the breeds - there needs to be turn-over in the stock - breeding - they will disappear without.

In the UK, sheep are effectively 100% extensively reared and most beef is too, although in areas where the land can’t take winter grazing, they are brought in.

Pigs – lots of extensively reared pig meat available.

There are masses upon masses of wild game available – it was just ambling along and then it wasn’t! Even farmed venison is extensively reared and usually shot in the field.

I love veggies prepared well, but nutritional problems aside, I’d give up veggies before I gave up meat.

Yep, much of our landscape is sheepwrecked and it's time to stop subsidising the anachronistic farming methods that keep it that way.

 

[foxwelljsly]

bor,



I've not had any issues in the ~35 years I've not eaten meat. Nuts, seeds, lentils, etc. are high enough in protein to maintain muscle mass, but a dietician can confirm what plant-based proteinaceous foods are best based on your age and activity.

Joe

A quick Google suggests that if you're 80kg, about 250g of beans would meet your daily requirement for protein. I'm not sure that's a great deal.

 

[Vinny]

Yep, much of our landscape is sheepwrecked and it's time to stop subsidising the anachronistic farming methods that keep it that way.

Shame then that people love it, even regard it as "the way things should be".

But if it were not for sheep, uncontrolled deer would do the same and worse as they browse and graze.

One way or another, mammals would exit, either to be eaten by us humans, or buried, or even left to rot on the hills. Left on the hills, there'd then be a "plague" of ravens.

Life is very far from simple, despite what many, especially the ill-educated, would wish and imagine. The British Isles are tiny and we humanss long ago removed large carnivores, introduced large grazers , and took charge of the landscape (all but red deer are introduced and even reds are now suspected as being so too, so fallow, roe, sika, muntjac, and water deer, plus cattle, sheep, and goats are all introdced, and you can add rabbits to that list too).

 

[foxwelljsly]

Shame then that people love it, even regard it as "the way things should be".

But if it were not for sheep, uncontrolled deer would do the same and worse as they browse and graze.

One way or another, mammals would exit, either to be eaten by us humans, or buried, or even left to rot on the hills. Left on the hills, there'd then be a "plague" of ravens.

Life is very far from simple, despite what many, especially the ill-educated, would wish and imagine. The British Isles are tiny and we humanss long ago removed large carnivores, introduced large grazers , and took charge of the landscape (all but red deer are introduced and even reds are now suspected as being so too, so fallow, roe, sika, muntjac, and water deer, plus cattle, sheep, and goats are all introdced, and you can add rabbits to that list too).

One word. Wolves. Would certainly make wild camping a bit spicier.

 

[Vinny]

One word. Wolves. Would detainly make wild camping a bit spicier.

If only life etc. were that simple

There is very serious talk of introducing (proably not a reintroduction) lynx, but their preferred prey is small, unfortunately to the size of young lambs.
Now, that WOULD be something to see - a very small large cat hunting rabbits and mice on the fells!!!!!!! I'd love to live to see it, or even try to see it.

 

[foxwelljsly]

If only life etc. were that simple

It might well be, we don’t really know as no large scale effort to do this has yet happened. I’m genuinely up for abandoning agriculture and gradually reintroducing apex predators in one of our national parks or landscapes to see what would happen.

Personally, I don’t see how their ecosystems can be revived unless this happens and I have yet to hear a cogent argument against it that doesn’t involve invoking the ‘rights’ of those who are either blasting away at game or ploughing it up to raise sheep and cows, usually with some form of taxpayer subsidy.

 

[Vinny]

@foxwelljsly - it may not seem so, but what you talk about woulkd really destroy much of the UK economy and what it is based upon.
The knock-ons in terms of food prices and the like would be beyond imagination.

Depending on what scale you are talking about, but the ecosystem in the UK includes massive inputs from humans.

If the UK abandons agriculture as you suggest, we just pass the effort to feed us to somewhere else, and pay a lot extra for whoever else to do it.

You need to think far more laterally.

 

[kanwar]

sorry but I have worked in 4 cities in Gujarat - meat is widely eaten in Ahmedabad and Ghee is widely used elsewhere- not really a plant based diet

I thought “plant based” means based on plants, or does it mean “strictly plants.” I lived in India and even though I can’t be a 100% certain what was knocked up in the kitchens of every humble Indian, I do know that most of the curries are plant based. Taking milk from cows to make ghee and letting them live a full life is in my book somewhat more menschlich than raising them to be butchered for human consumption.

 

[Puggie]

But milk production in the uk (practices in India may be different where I suspect meat is more valued) leads to a lot of slaughtered calves as we have no market for veal, so the male calves from the dairy breads are of no use/value and usually slaughtered for dog food or similar. At least those butchered for human consumption are slaughtered for a purpose rather than just to achieve the least wastage.

I’m not ready to give up meat, I think it’s a proper part of the human diet and I enjoy it. I Do think we need to take a long look at how we farm both meat and vegetables. We need to be sustainable and environmental, a lot of veg and cereal farming is not much better for the environment than livestock farming in many areas.

Needs some big picture thinking, which will make things more expensive and give us less year round choice (seasonal produce will apply to more than Christmas crackers in the supermarket ), which many will see as a bad thing.

I’m not ready to go vegan, but I see the way I eat meat as more thoughtful than being vegetarian in the current world of mechanised farming.

 

[lexi]

The worst culprits of abuse are the Salmon farms in Scotland. Total filth of an Industry from top to bottom. Mainly Norwegian owned. https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=don staniford

 

[cobbers]

A quick Google suggests that if you're 80kg, about 250g of beans would meet your daily requirement for protein. I'm not sure that's a great deal.

Just think of the CO2 and Methane resulting from it

 

[foxwelljsly]

Just think of the CO2 and Methane resulting from it

Just methane, I think. Pretty sure I read that the endless farts you get from eating Jerusalem artichokes are CO2 from the gut fermentation of indigestible sugars.

 

[darrenyeats]

But milk production in the uk (practices in India may be different where I suspect meat is more valued) leads to a lot of slaughtered calves as we have no market for veal, so the male calves from the dairy breads are of no use/value and usually slaughtered for dog food or similar. At least those butchered for human consumption are slaughtered for a purpose rather than just to achieve the least wastage.

I’m not ready to give up meat, I think it’s a proper part of the human diet and I enjoy it. I Do think we need to take a long look at how we farm both meat and vegetables. We need to be sustainable and environmental, a lot of veg and cereal farming is not much better for the environment than livestock farming in many areas.

Needs some big picture thinking, which will make things more expensive and give us less year round choice (seasonal produce will apply to more than Christmas crackers in the supermarket ), which many will see as a bad thing.

I’m not ready to go vegan, but I see the way I eat meat as more thoughtful than being vegetarian in the current world of mechanised farming.

Thanks, you've given me something upon which to ponder.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I Do think we need to take a long look at how we farm both meat and vegetables. We need to be sustainable and environmental, a lot of veg and cereal farming is not much better for the environment than livestock farming in many areas.

I'd agree that a lot of farming practice, including arable farming, is very far from environmentally friendly and we've seen the impact this has had on native species from the collapse of insect populations to everything further up the food chain.

But big picture I don't think you can ignore the impact of meat production, particularly beef, on climate change.

I think switching to (sustainably caught) fish or chicken, consuming less meat, and as you suggest, consuming more thoughtfully and 'eating the seasons' are all steps in the right direction.

 

[johnhunt]

My youngest daughter has stopped eating meat . It’s had a knock on effect and I’ve had to learn to cook some more stuff

 

[stevec67]

CO2 generation is an unfortunate consequence of being alive. You generate your first gaseous CO2 with the first outward breath of your life and carry on until you die. This is a constant reality regardless of what you eat. Border agency staff check trucks for illegal immigrants by putting CO2 sniffers inside the trucks or by the container vents. If there's anything alive in there, there will be an elevated CO2 level.

 

[mi_z]

CO2 generation is an unfortunate consequence of being alive. You generate your first gaseous CO2 with the first outward breath of your life and carry on until you die. This is a constant reality regardless of what you eat. Border agency staff check trucks for illegal immigrants by putting CO2 sniffers inside the trucks or by the container vents. If there's anything alive in there, there will be an elevated CO2 level.

While you may think you've said something enlightening, it's actually bone-headed and makes you look stupid.

 

[mi_z]

I’m not ready to give up meat, I think it’s a proper part of the human diet and I enjoy it. I Do think we need to take a long look at how we farm both meat and vegetables. We need to be sustainable and environmental, a lot of veg and cereal farming is not much better for the environment than livestock farming in many areas.

I.e. you like to make up facts in your mind...

 

[stevec67]

While you may think you've said something enlightening, it's actually bone-headed and makes you look stupid.

Charmed, I'm sure.