No More Meat.

[bor]

I guess for the last 10 years we rarely eat meat, for all the usual reasons - health/ethics/land usage etc.

In fact, I don't think we actually buy meat anymore, just occasionally eat it at restaurants although we both generally prefer fish.

Flirting with veganism at the moment due to the supposed performance improvements.

I can't say I feel notably better or worse through not eating meat, to be honest.

I was with a colleague on Saturday night, an ex-national sporting champion, who is also trying out veganism, who thinks he can concentrate better etc.
Could be a placebo effect, but there seems to be a lot of credible evidence that it improves health, notwithstanding the need to be aware of Vitamin D and B12 levels.

 

[mandryka]

I have had periods of many years when I don’t touch meat or fish, and then lapse back into being a carnivore - I’ve been a lapsed vegetarian for the past two years, after about a five year run of no dead animal food. I don’t like the idea of suffering, I don’t want to make anything suffer if I can avoid it, and I so I don't want to be a part of a system which makes animals suffer.

I’m kind of compromising at the moment, I only eat dead animals which have been reared organically, because I have the (possibly mistaken) impression that they are much less likely to have had a bad life or a bad death. Even there, I sometimes buy processed products, bread and wine for example, which may not be produced in a way which cares about animals, and I wore a leather jacket this afternoon . . . I guess I have a weak will!

 

[bor]

Protein intake is where our focus is right now, because I am not sure we are getting enough to maintain muscle mass as we age.

That is what I think you need to concentrate on if you go vegetarian/vegan (or probably even if you still eat meat come to think of it)

 

[Vinny]

It always confuses and amuses the hell out of me that people won’t eat red meat, but will eat fish and white meat.

Fish are either dragged from the water, eviscerated while fully conscious and then “discarded “, presumably to die from the piscatorial equivalent of shock, or alternatively they are just dragged from the water and suffocated/crushed to death amongst their brethren.

In the UK poultry are despatched in the exactly the same way as mammalian farm animals – stunned, throat slit and left to bleed out.

People wear leather shoes and belts, and eat dairy products. A cow has to give birth every year or so to produce milk – where are the calves going? Where are the cull cows, and other livestock, going?

Vast areas of the UK – lots of Scotland, The Peaks and The lakes, the moors in the SW – they are all, without exception, products of livestock production. There’d be rather few views if it was all covered in scrub and open woodland. Sure they could be grazed by bullocks or single sex herds so that there was no young stock, and the tax-payer could pay to run it all.
The effort ebbs and flows, but there are plenty in the native pony societies that try to make eating Dartmoor, Exmoor and other pony meat, acceptable and popular - it could be the saviour of the breeds - there needs to be turn-over in the stock - breeding - they will disappear without.

In the UK, sheep are effectively 100% extensively reared and most beef is too, although in areas where the land can’t take winter grazing, they are brought in.

Pigs – lots of extensively reared pig meat available.

There are masses upon masses of wild game available – it was just ambling along and then it wasn’t! Even farmed venison is extensively reared and usually shot in the field.

I love veggies prepared well, but nutritional problems aside, I’d give up veggies before I gave up meat.

 

[dweezil]

I've cut back a bit as i'm doing less physical work but must say i enjoy a lot of meat products.

We produce chickens and try to do that as humanely as possible but there isn't much room to improve their lives beyond Red Tractor standards.
We've got planning permission to change use of the site so it's just a matter of time before they go.
If window requirements become obligatory that time will arrive.

An associated business produces beef on a small scale, we try to keep this as sustainable as possible so a lot of by products, broken biscuits, citrus waste etc with a chunk of maize which helps the arable rotation.

OH arrived home with a couple of bits of lamb this evening; from Australia. I might choke on that.

 

[Vinny]

OH arrived home with a couple of bits of lamb this evening; from Australia. I might choke on that.

I have never knowingly seen Australian lamb.
The vast majority of their sheep are merino and produce wool. Apparently their meat is essentially inedible due to the lanolin in it (seriously).
Presumably cull merinos go for dog food, or, more likely, a hole in the ground or renderers.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I've stopped eating meat aged 14 simply because the idea began to revolt me and it seemed so unnecessary.

People seem to assume that being vegetarian is a health thing. I just switched from meat based junk food to veggie junk food. Hey ho.

I'm very happy to hear so many people reducing the amount of meat they eat. If everyone halved the amount of meat they consumed I think that would be amazing - both in the impact to the planet and the reduction of sentient creatures suffering.

 

[matthewr]

I mentioned this elsewhere, but the history of Vegetarianism in the US and the west more generally is fascinating and until recently when ethical and climate change reasons became the thing was mostly about sex.

 

[Joe P]

bor,

Protein intake is where our focus is right now, because I am not sure we are getting enough to maintain muscle mass as we age.

I've not had any issues in the ~35 years I've not eaten meat. Nuts, seeds, lentils, etc. are high enough in protein to maintain muscle mass, but a dietician can confirm what plant-based proteinaceous foods are best based on your age and activity.

Joe

 

[mikemusic]

Went veggie early eighties
Wouldn't have eaten my newly acquired dogs so applied the same thought to all others including fish
The more I found out the more I became certain I had to be veggie
Gradually cut back on dairy after reading and hearing grim things about the dairy industry
Went fully vegan early '21 and felt better for it
The health aspects of being vegan are useful and combined with looking after my biome with loads of extra fruit, veg, nuts and seeds the only supplements I take are Vitamin D and B12.

 

[Tony L]

I’m on prescribed Vitamin B12 and take D across the winter (which is most of the year in Manchester) when I’m not able to get out cycling.

 

[CageyH]

A question for vegetarians/vegans. Do you still buy leather goods, such as shoes/wallets/belts and coats?

Are there suitable man made alternatives?
I am not searching for arguments, I am just interested how easy it is, especially with formal shoes?

 

[Somafunk]

^ Nope, never owned leather shoes, boots/leather jacket etc

 

[sean99]

Vegetarianism in any of its various forms, particularly veganism, has been increasing in popularity over the past few years, especially among the young population in the United States. While several studies have shown that a vegan diet (VD) decreases the risk of cardiometabolic diseases, such as cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes mellitus, obesity, and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, veganism has been associated with adverse health outcomes, namely, nervous, skeletal, and immune system impairments, hematological disorders, as well as mental health problems due to the potential for micro and macronutrient deficits.

The goal of this review article is to discuss the current literature on the impact and long-term consequences of veganism on vulnerable populations, including children, adolescents, pregnant and breastfeeding women, and fetal outcomes in strict vegan mothers. It also focuses on the many deficiencies of the vegan diet, especially vitamin B12, and the related increased risk of malignancies.
Vitamin B12

Low vitamin B12 intake is a significant problem in vegan diets due to the exclusion of vitamin B12-rich foods such as meat, poultry, and eggs. A lack of vitamin B12 has been linked to neurologic and hematologic problems [19]. Low vitamin B12 intake has serious clinical consequences, although deficient symptoms appear gradually over time. High folate levels may also partly and temporarily obscure some of the typical vitamin B12 hematological manifestations. To prevent vitamin B12 deficiency, vegans must get their levels checked regularly and meet their daily requirements via supplements or fortified food

A growing body of research indicates that inadequate B12 consumption may contribute to carcinogenesis. Vitamin B12 deficiency increases uracil misincorporation, impairing DNA synthesis and genomic instability. Global hypomethylation of DNA is a characteristic of early carcinogenesis. Thus, if not adequately replaced, VD may inadvertently lead to cancers [20]. Wu et al found that blood B12 levels were substantially lower in menopausal and postmenopausal breast cancer patients, and patients with the lowest B12 levels had an elevated risk of breast cancer [21]. Reduced B12 levels have also been linked to an increased risk of cervical and gastrointestinal tract malignancies [22-24]. As a result, B12 supplementation is imperative for vegans due to the extensive and irreversible detrimental effects of the deficiencies.

Vitamin D, calcium, bone mineral density, and risk of fractures

Numerous studies have shown that vegans consume insufficient calcium and vitamin D, not only owing to the absence of dairy products but also due to calcium bioavailability problems in plant-based diets [28]. Vitamin D insufficiency exacerbates calcium shortage further owing to impaired intestinal absorption. After adjusting for socioeconomic variables, lifestyle covariates, and body mass index (BMI), a recent study reported that as compared to meat-eaters, there was an increased risk of hip fractures observed in vegetarians (HR 1.25; CI 1.04-1.50), vegans (2.31; 1.66-3.22), and fish eaters (1.26; 1.02-1.54) [29]. Vegans also had a greater incidence of overall fracture (1.43; 1.20-1.70), leg fractures (2.05; 1.23-3.41), and fractures in other major sites (1.59; 1.02-2.50). The higher risk of fractures may be related to vegans' significantly lower calcium intake, reduced dietary protein intake, and lower BMI [30-32].

The Impact of a Vegan Diet on Many Aspects of Health: The Overlooked Side of Veganism

Vegetarianism in any of its various forms, particularly veganism, has been increasing in popularity over the past few years, especially among the young population in the United States. While several studies have shown that a vegan diet (VD) decreases ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I've come to the conclusion that one can be a healthy omnivore/vegetarian/vegan or one can be an unhealthy omnivore/vegetarian/vegan. Being healthy requires being careful about what you consume and following current dietary recommendations (also exercise, sleep etc).
However choosing to be an omnivore, whether healthy or unhealthy, increases animal suffering, and usually increases your carbon footprint (which increases animal suffering).

 

[Mogreg]

My wife became vegan, and I became sort of vegan by osmosis… I couldn’t be bothered to cook different food, and giving up meat/dairy was no big deal, just as giving up cigarettes had been 20 years previously. Giving up chocolate, now that is difficult

 

[Dogberry]

My wife became vegan, and I became sort of vegan by osmosis… I couldn’t be bothered to cook different food, and giving up meat/dairy was no big deal, just as giving up cigarettes had been 20 years previously. Giving up chocolate, now that is difficult

Vegan chocolate easily got.
Try booja-booja etc.

 

[Rodrat]

i have increasingly found the taste of most vegetables as not enjoyable or worth the effort. And yet ten years ago and more I liked most other than butter beans and similar. Bit weird.

 

[paulfromcamden]

A question for vegetarians/vegans. Do you still buy leather goods, such as shoes/wallets/belts and coats?

Are there suitable man made alternatives?
I am not searching for arguments, I am just interested how easy it is, especially with formal shoes?

Try and avoid it (though I'm wearing a leather watch strap as I type).

IME the alternatives for shoes aren't great but thankfully I mostly live in trainers with just a pair of 'vegetarian leather' dress shoes for interviews, weddings etc.

 

[blossomchris]

I always enjoyed eating meat, but for ethical reasons went vegetarian for 12-18 months or so a few years back. However eventually I realised that I'd lost around a stone in weight, but wasn't any less fat.

That seemed like it wasn't healthy, and although I am aware that some dietary adjustments can be made whilst remaining vegetarian, the compromise I chose to make was to resume eating fish and chicken, but to avoid mammals and cephalopods. This was based on my estimation of sentience/capacity to experience suffering.

Might seem a bit unusual, but I'm sure I recall hearing of others (not least a couple of former Top Gear presenters) doing similar, so maybe it's more common than one might think.

Fish and chicken only here also. we try to buy the best we can afford when eating either.

 

[martin clark]

I finally went full-time vegetarian about two years ago, for various small reasons that added-up to a big thing.
Despite O+ blood type and pointy teeth, I have long been happy in that constituency anyway; daughter went veggie at 13 - her choice - and her mum always-was; and eating together was always a really important family bond.

Anyway, post -lockdown: throwing-out remaining old cooking habits also supported a project to shed the results of a personal annual inflation rate of 1-2lb/yr as an adult. Shed 18kg, have held-off 15 without trying.

Do I miss 'it'? miss what, exactly... on the contrary: it's a great simplification, and I am well.