New budget Naim.

[Steven Toy]

Joe,................

5 - Nobody on fora can answer.

W.t.f. is or are FORA?

Is it a drug from Roman times, or a margarine with a missing ingredient, or Roman market places, where I'm sure they didn't discuss hifi?

Plural of FORUM is Forums, and has been FOR A long time.

True.

 

[Mike Reed]

Multiple forums. Both "fora" and "forum" are acceptable forms, but "forums" is recommended for normal language use these days. That doesn't make "fora" wrong.

Did you not see the smiley? No argument, though; just check with the New O.E.D.; there's only one plural for discussion arenas.

 

[Julf]

Did you not see the smiley? No argument, though; just check with the New O.E.D.; there's only one plural for discussion arenas.

Can't have a proper audiophile debate without a graph

 

[formbypc]

Joe, I know for the same reasons that I know MANA Racks, Rega's expensive mains cables, Cat pee deflectors and expensive HDMI cables all do nothing too - because there's absolutely zero scienfific evidence

At one time, there was no scientific evidence of gravity, but objects still fell to earth.

At one time, there was no scientific evidence of the cause of cholera, but folks in London still got sick from drinking water around the Thames.

It's perfectly possible for some effect to exist without (current) scientific evidence of its existence.

 

[IanG-UK]

Joe, companies like Naim make expensive external PSU's and then...

1 - They claim that they improve performance.

2 - Reviewers try them out and agree with Naim.

3 - Punters buy them and they also agree that they work.

4 - People on fora ask how they work.

5 - Nobody on fora can answer.

6 - People get suspicious.

7 - People question whether they do anything at all.

8 - Owners defend their products - Saying that they do work.

10 - People ask them to explain how.

11 - They can't - They just say they do work.

12 - Fishies like Rob and Paul R explain why they don't work.

13 - Other fishies disagree - And call their fishie bretheren trolls.

14 - Sensible people investigate and find that the products are Foo.

15 - Owners get very defensive and factions are formed.

16 - Mods have to try to deal with the arguments.

17 - Owners start asking non-believers to prove that they don't work.

18 - Sensible people that have investigated explain that there is zero proof that they do work.

19 - Owners ask them how they can know that if they haven't heard them.

20 - Sensible people explain the power of suggestion.

21 - Owners call them trolls and explain that they trust their ears.

22 - Sensible people ask them to blind test.

23 - Owners don't ever do that.

24 - Sensible people ask - Why not?

25 - Owners don't need to, they say.

26 - Science is ignored.

27 - Myths are born.

28 - Bad advice is passed on by owners who are now heavily emotionally invested in their products.

29 - The truth is buried.

30 - Naim win.

31 - Punters lose.

31 - Sensible people give up.

32 - Or do they

Why does 31 get two goes?

 

[Harry1212]

Why does 31 get two goes?

His power supply dipped under load ?

 

[Julf]

At one time, there was no scientific evidence of gravity, but objects still fell to earth.

There was a lot of scientific evidence. The fact that objects fell to earth was measurable. In objective, repeatable experiments. What was missing was a comprehensive explanation of why it happened.

At one time, there was no scientific evidence of the cause of cholera, but folks in London still got sick from drinking water around the Thames.

There was a lot of scientific evidence. The fact that people got sick was observable. In objective, repeatable ways. What was missing was a comprehensive explanation of why it happened.

It's perfectly possible for some effect to exist without (current) scientific evidence of its existence.

Don't confuse "scientific evidence" with "scientific explanation". Even with things we don't have an explanation for there still should be repeatable, controlled, objective evidence of the effect actually happening.

Then there is the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot and their audiophile friends...

 

[Singslinger]

Bigfoot and Nessie ARE real. For sure.

 

[Gaius]

Bigfoot and Nessie ARE real. For sure.

Yes!

 

[Mike Reed]

Don't confuse "scientific evidence" with "scientific explanation". Even with things we don't have an explanation for there still should be repeatable, controlled, objective evidence of the effect actually happening.

Then there is the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot and their audiophile friends...

Interesting and irrefutable point, and they're still finding new species of fauna, if not Nessies etc. Do you mean 'Bigears' as 'audiophile friends'?

 

[Markus S]

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind.../468-naim-makes-a-statement-and-roger-concurs

 

[John Channing]

I will hopefully be at the Bristol Hifi Show in Feb where there should be a demonstration of the Statement. This discussion should be a lot more interesting once more people have actually heard the amplifiers!

 

[John Channing]

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind.../468-naim-makes-a-statement-and-roger-concurs

That reads more like a Naim press release than a review

 

[LesW]

I've absorbed the discussions on this august forum and I have to report
that this new product is of little or no consequence to the membership
of PFM. I'll lay a pound to a pinch of snuff that there is no-one from PFM
either willing (or indeed able) to stump up the kind of cash needed to buy
one of these.

In effect, Naim have priced themselves out of the market as far as PFM
members are concerned.

Q.E.D.

 

[Julf]

I've absorbed the discussions on this august forum and I have to report
that this new product is of little or no consequence to the membership
of PFM. I'll lay a pound to a pinch of snuff that there is no-one from PFM
either willing (or indeed able) to stump up the kind of cash needed to buy
one of these.

Wouldn't a pinch of cocaine be more appropriate?

 

[Joe P]

Les,

Quite possibly, if the Statement amp were the only product Naim made, but I suspect Naim will continue to manufacture a few lower-end components.

Joe

 

[Robert]

I've absorbed the discussions on this august forum and I have to report
that this new product is of little or no consequence to the membership
of PFM. I'll lay a pound to a pinch of snuff that there is no-one from PFM
either willing (or indeed able) to stump up the kind of cash needed to buy
one of these.

In effect, Naim have priced themselves out of the market as far as PFM
members are concerned.

Q.E.D.

It's a flagship product for a tiny, tiny market.
I'm sure we'll continue to see the release of 'budget' products, and the usual continued support for existing kit. So I don't see how they've priced themselves out of the market or pfm members.

Why introduce such a thing?
Many possible reasons ranging from a genuine belief that it sounds better to pure market placement - the super rich market where the total sale of a 100 units might be considered a success at £140k a pop.

I will hopefully be at the Bristol Hifi Show in Feb where there should be a demonstration of the Statement. This discussion should be a lot more interesting once more people have actually heard the amplifiers!

It won't.

 

[cooky1257]

Is one expected to plug it into a common wall socket?

 

[Tony L]

Why introduce such a thing?
Many possible reasons ranging from a genuine belief that it sounds better to pure market placement - the super rich market where the total sale of a 100 units might be considered a success at £140k a pop.

My suspicion is it's a wider indicator of the state of the market, i.e. everyone who wants the existing stuff has already bought it, few new punters are coming in at the bottom, so that leaves little option but to introduce ever more expensive and "better" kit in the hope that owners of the current (hardly cheap) top-end stuff will upgrade. I'm not singling Naim out here. This seems to be market-wide with many companies moving ever-upwards to cater for what appears to be a rapidly declining yet ever-older and more wealthy market. This strategy is clearly unsustainable long-term as it will die with that generation. One needs to get the kids & school-leavers interested in order to have a natural flow throughout a product range, but the conventional audio market has almost entirely failed to connect here for a couple of decades now.

The whole thing needs a vicious shake-up IMO. Someone a) needs to convince kids of the benefit of high-quality full-range sound in the home, and b) design and market affordable products that fulfil that requirement and they'd actually want to buy. It looks like several manufacturers are viewing headphones as a potential bridge-product - I see examples from B&W, Kef, Focal, Musical Fidelity and others. I'd be interested to know if that is working at all and translating into later home audio sales etc. I hope so. The headphone market is certainly healthy, so folk do care about quality sound - it just needs to get it out from being stuck between the ears and into the living room.

 

[rontoolsie]

This is a product targeted more towards the pontiff than the equally faithful, but lesser endowed choir boys. I have already opined that there will not be single member of the Green Forum that will ever own these amps, just like none of us will ever drive the Bentley.

I have no doubt that the performance will greatly outdistance the previous flagship models. The 552 in particular was somewhat short on performance given its price, although with a pit of jiggerypokery could be made into quite a fine preamp.

The DR supplies and upgrades was much bigger news to the Naim community and enjoyed a buzz in the forums for many many months after their introduction. The excitement about these new flagship products seems to already be waning. The Statements will be about as hard to get into ones home as Cameron Diaz. But then again we are all creatures of hope....