Please post more here too. You've got my money, and I don't get to see the updates.
MDAC First Listen (part 00111001)
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Please post more here too. You've got my money, and I don't get to see the updates.
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
If I remember rightly that was Munich. Followed by September followed by Christmas.
John we don’t need daily updates. We need products delivered, or funds refunded.
In fairness to John there’s no provision for refunds here. Think of it like any other crowd funded scheme, you invest with a degree of risk.
Like many others I’m sure, I’ve written off my investment in FDAC / Detox long ago. With that said I still firmly believe John will deliver in time and, from my point of view, it’ll be a bonus if and when that happens.
I think John has the utmost integrity but is given to rash promises (let’s face it, it’s a tough crowd) and a lack of project management.
Finally I’d like to suggest that the Detox is cancelled forthwith, or at least postponed. Since I put my name down I no longer have a need for this and (I could of course be wrong) I’m sure many others are in a similar position. I think removing this from John’s workload would greatly help with progressing the other projects.
Ideally there’d need to be some form of adjustment to compensate those that funded the Detox. I’m sure the lessons learned in developing Detox have benefitted the MDAC project generally so perhaps share the cost?
I’m ready for the inevitable abuse that’s coming my way, please at least try and be constructive.
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
I'm not going to send you any abuse other than to point out that you comment on refunds doesn't sit very well with your comment on compensation.
The reason we are being delayed does not seem to be because of the detox. It's because we are currently waiting for John to finish things we never asked him to do (mini streamer, streamer, dev dac, build your own production facility) . Can someone please explain what if any progress has been made on the mdac2 over the last year? Is the official position that once whatever it is that John is currently doing finishes the mdac2 will then immediately go into production?
-1 on nixxing the DETOX!!!! WTF? I have been waiting 2 1/2 years for my DETOX. As the expression goes, I have tried the rest, now want to try the best...encouraged by the high praise bestowed on John and his knowledge of digital and USB design.
Your first point is reasonable but I did say ‘Ideally.....’ Given my general stance on funding I’m more than prepared to take the hit.
I agree re the additional projects causing a delay but must point out that the Detox was also never on the radar until it was.
JohnW
pfm member
Now with the in house production capabilities, Detox is now an easier project to move forward with.
There are two issues with Detox:-
1. I'll be ordering components in Europe to ease manufacturing, so price will be higher.
2. I REALLY worry about quality control issues with the CNC chassis from China. What do I do if I have 100 pcs chassis and 50% are rejected. the Chinese vendor will not reimburse the payment and I would be in no position to refund the payments to the customer.
I have a partner factory in China, but they have let me down recently on a few projects which causes me great concern.
The solution I see is to ask the vendor to manufacture in smaller batches - ship and build (confirming all is good) before placing the following order... but I'd need the vendor to agree to smaller production runs... its going to be hard to make them agree.
Recently I've had a spate of QC issues from China - and with each it just reconfirm that I made the correct decision to invest with into in-house electronics production to complete these projects.
There are two issues with Detox:-
1. I'll be ordering components in Europe to ease manufacturing, so price will be higher.
2. I REALLY worry about quality control issues with the CNC chassis from China. What do I do if I have 100 pcs chassis and 50% are rejected. the Chinese vendor will not reimburse the payment and I would be in no position to refund the payments to the customer.
I have a partner factory in China, but they have let me down recently on a few projects which causes me great concern.
The solution I see is to ask the vendor to manufacture in smaller batches - ship and build (confirming all is good) before placing the following order... but I'd need the vendor to agree to smaller production runs... its going to be hard to make them agree.
Recently I've had a spate of QC issues from China - and with each it just reconfirm that I made the correct decision to invest with into in-house electronics production to complete these projects.
I understand your position but I believe the lack of activity on Detox is because John has deprioritisd it since it does nothing to aid MDAC and would only absorb yet more time
John,
How can it be that when getting stuff done in China there’s no guarantee of quality? Surely, given the vast amount of trade that the rest of the world does with them it can’t be correct that they make a bunch if cr4p and then just ignore any request for compensation. No one can do business like that long term and survive, even if they are the cheapest. This must be a concern for the VFET chassis.....
JohnW
pfm member
In China money talks (I guess the same is true for anywhere in the world). But the 100 odd pcs of Detox will be nothing but a pain for the manufacturer.
China is geared to mass production where you have the time and numbers to get the line working smoothly and the finical power as a customer to enforce the required quality.
I'm in the position where I'm calling in a favor with my past contacts... this "good will" only goes so far.
The 20 Pcs. VFET amps will be made at a specialist CNC vendor and at a crazy price...
Now the the electronics side of things has been taken care off by bringing in house - I need a longer term solution for the chassis. Pricing in Europe is TOTALLY nuts, but I'm sure there will be a more practical way forward. Unfortunately mechanical engineering is not my primary skill, so not something I'd entertain to invested in.
It be good to establish a partnership with someone like myself working on the mechanical side here in Europe - until then I'll have to battle forward with the Asia route and face all the expected issues.
China is geared to mass production where you have the time and numbers to get the line working smoothly and the finical power as a customer to enforce the required quality.
I'm in the position where I'm calling in a favor with my past contacts... this "good will" only goes so far.
The 20 Pcs. VFET amps will be made at a specialist CNC vendor and at a crazy price...
Now the the electronics side of things has been taken care off by bringing in house - I need a longer term solution for the chassis. Pricing in Europe is TOTALLY nuts, but I'm sure there will be a more practical way forward. Unfortunately mechanical engineering is not my primary skill, so not something I'd entertain to invested in.
It be good to establish a partnership with someone like myself working on the mechanical side here in Europe - until then I'll have to battle forward with the Asia route and face all the expected issues.
In fairness it wasn't stated which Christmas.
This really is the thread that keeps on giving
timola
pfm Member
That would be a great idea for the FDAC/tube_DAC. This will have an internal PSU and a larger CNC'd (shielded) chassis. Maybe with a bypass switch.
misterdog
Not the canine kind
The glue lines on plywood totally fooks with tungsten carbide tooling, maybe it wood (sic) do likewise with RFI .
I have an Aries Mini streamer which has a plastic case and an internal wi-fi antenna, the designers have said that RFI is a lesser problem than 'noise' passed from the router through an ethernet cable.
.I have an Aries Mini streamer which has a plastic case and an internal wi-fi antenna, the designers have said that RFI is a lesser problem than 'noise' passed from the router through an ethernet cable.
Sibbers
Earthling
Not sure I agree on the tough crowd. I guess the difficulty I am having is that we invested to make it easier for John to solve the upgrade problem with a new product, and instead he's created a bunch of others (one of which - Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital - seems to have been produced and is available for purchase) during the time which keeps getting delayed. All I really ever wanted were my expectations realistically set. I don't care about frequent updates, I'd prefer a few statements I can hang my hat on about what the products are and when they are realistically going to come, if at all - I'd rather know and get on with my life. It feels pretty ridiculous to expect the FDAC will ever be anything but a concept, but it's possible we will see a detox maybe depending on Johns (limited) good will.
It is a shame, I'd love to see a JW FDAC and VFET amp wired up together, but it feels like fantasy. Been waiting since 2014 and I came in pretty late. Hat's off to the superfans that are hanging in there.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
I’ve got £600 tied up in this, and as someone said earlier I’ve mentally written off that money - that’s the risk with crowd funding, and I feel I’ve learned a lesson. If I get a product it’ll be a bonus. There’s no way I’ll be waiting for an F-Dac even if it means I’ll lose the £200 I sent for the F-Dac ADC converter and the RIAA module. The fact that I need to invest in an unwanted streamer to get full M-Dac functionality was another negative. I realise the reason why that’s the case, but that’s not what I signed up to.
To be brutally honest if I’d know in 2015, when I paid, that 2018 would arrive without delivery I’d never have invested in the project. I understand the production pressures that probably came as a surprise to John, but now I’d prefer an honest answer to when, or if, we can expect the product.
To be brutally honest if I’d know in 2015, when I paid, that 2018 would arrive without delivery I’d never have invested in the project. I understand the production pressures that probably came as a surprise to John, but now I’d prefer an honest answer to when, or if, we can expect the product.
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