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LP12 vs 1200GR

"Say what you want about about the LP12 with it's colorations and whatnot but when it comes down to gaining a greater understanding of complex passages, musician interplay and correctly passing along the heart/soul of the music from the vinyl groove to the listener & not just some random series of notes the LP12 has the edge. ...Yes, the Technics may recreate a very accurate & unwavering piano note strike sustain, but it's when it comes to putting all the notes together to recreate the overall musical performance that's the issue".
This kind of waffly stuff is what Linn and its owners have been repeating for near 40 years. It's exactly because it means nothing sensible at all that it can't be contradicted and so it perpetuates.
Some musical equipment is designed to alter the sound. Tuned to sound more enjoyable (for some) in various ways. Amps, Speakers and sources all do it.
And some engineers bend over backwards to ensure that no such thing happens. Then we all just have to muck about finding our prefered compromise.
 
Any Private Eye readers from way back then ?
Remember Pseuds´Corner ? Are we in danger of recreating it?
Glad I´m deaf and it´s comforting that one day I will be able to switch from my Linn to a Technics without regret. Years ago there were people who even plumped for a Roksan or a Pink Triangle rather than a Linn. Guess they no longer exist.
 
sonddek said:
One theory is that on some decks a wow pattern is contributed by the drive or suspension system partly as a function of signal energy. Trivially this must be true, since there is increased work driving the record under stylus drag when signal energy increases, but it is moot whether it is subliminally or consciously audible.

If a deck were to slow marginally with louder signal you might expect it to affect the mood of a passage in a repeatable and eventually familiar way. Mood and pace are important to overall impressions of music, and this could affect long term attitudes to comparisons between decks. A lot of our enjoyment of music is in expectation and predictability as becomes very clear when you listen to different productions of a symphony, for example.

If you came to love a piece of music on one deck, you might be a little disappointed by its performance on another deck even were the substitute more accurate to the original recording in speed accuracy and other factors.
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I wonder if this is why some are so wedded to their LP12s and keep them for decades? It’s a thought certainly.
 
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clownfish said:
Now that would be really interesting! Please do share what you find. Will be really interesting to see if you find more 'life' at 1.9 or less.

I was a bit surprised because it was fine at 2.0 on the Ittok.

What headshell are you using with it?
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just using the stock head shell at the moment. I’ve only had the deck a few weeks and only have the one cartridge. Turning the tracking force down a touch did seem to make the presentation a bit “airier” which I liked. Wether this is deck/arm specific I wouldn’t have a clue.

Our kid has an AT OC9 variant on his Rega P8. Audio Technica seem to make headshells matched to these. That might be my next upgrade. I can’t see much value in trading in the DV for a like-for-like replacement when the technics offers so many options for easy experimentation.
 
I’ve said it before but nearly all the fancy headshells are heavier than stock so make sure it all adds up before you ‘upgrade’.
 
tpetsch said:
Say what you want about about the LP12 with it's colorations and whatnot but when it comes down to gaining a greater understanding of complex passages, musician interplay and correctly passing along the heart/soul of the music from the vinyl groove to the listener & not just some random series of notes the LP12 has the edge. ...Yes, the Technics may recreate a very accurate & unwavering piano note strike sustain, but it's when it comes to putting all the notes together to recreate the overall musical performance that's the issue.
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I run both a Sl1210 with a At95 ML and a LP12 with Hana ML and although I find the Tech really excellant with pitch.I do find the sound is a bit grey. Very matter of fact a bit CD like.Enjoyable but a bit cold sounding.I know I could pimp it up a bit and it might sound warmer with another cart.

The LP12 is much nicer very engaging and has a rightness about the sound but at 6 K more so it should.
 
It occurs to me that, a bit like Abba in the early eighties, there was an almost unimaginable time when DD decks - probably unfairly - were very unfashionable.

And now that they are fashionable once more, there is a headlong stampede towards them going on. I would lay odds on many of the Technics decks being bought now being sold within two to three years.

Technics 1210s are not the only approach to implementing DD by the way. The point that there is a lot of current going directly underneath something (ie the cart) which might be picking it up shouldn't be lost.

There are lower-torque (and thereby current) approaches around - such as the Motus decks.
 
Rockmeister said:
"Say what you want about about the LP12 with it's colorations and whatnot but when it comes down to gaining a greater understanding of complex passages, musician interplay and correctly passing along the heart/soul of the music from the vinyl groove to the listener & not just some random series of notes the LP12 has the edge. ...Yes, the Technics may recreate a very accurate & unwavering piano note strike sustain, but it's when it comes to putting all the notes together to recreate the overall musical performance that's the issue".
This kind of waffly stuff is what Linn and its owners have been repeating for near 40 years. It's exactly because it means nothing sensible at all that it can't be contradicted and so it perpetuates.
Some musical equipment is designed to alter the sound. Tuned to sound more enjoyable (for some) in various ways. Amps, Speakers and sources all do it.
And some engineers bend over backwards to ensure that no such thing happens. Then we all just have to muck about finding our prefered compromise.
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Source first! (Oh dear)
 
Alex S said:
I’ve said it before but nearly all the fancy headshells are heavier than stock so make sure it all adds up before you ‘upgrade’.
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Also with the Technics you need to keep an eye on where the mounting-plane of the headshell sits in relation to the socket as there is very little downward VTA adjustment available on the Technics arm for some reason even with the thick stock rubber mat. Some headshells are taller than others!
 
hermit said:
Why? By all accounts they are decent sounding decks, well engineered and reliable. Personally, I can't envisage too many owners being overcome by a sudden, urgent desire to employ a weedy motor and a rubber band.
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Indeed, noones owned one of these for 20-30yrs before with next to no maintenance have they. They have a battle hardened reputation for a reason
 
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