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LP12 vs 1200GR

Ooh. Do report back. I feel the same way about the GR as against my Orbe as you do against your Voyd, but I wonder how much that has to do with the Orbe having an FX3 on it.
Will do!
I did mount a sme 309 on my old mk2 Technics and that did make quite a difference, plus a few other upgrades.

I like having multiple turntable options and hopefully in a few weeks time I will be acquiring something quite interesting which I will report back on , all being well and depending on any work that might be needed .
 
Just a question to any GR owners reading this, have you tried changing the supplied phono leads for something else?
Today I did just that, a pair of Mark Grant HDX1 cables and well I'm pretty gobsmacked at the difference.

Hi Chris,

I'm wondering are the HDX1 cables low capacitance? and do Mark Grant provide capacitance values?
I can't see any info on their website.
 
Hi Chris,

I'm wondering are the HDX1 cables low capacitance? and do Mark Grant provide capacitance values?
I can't see any info on their website.

I don't know, I guess you could ask him though I haven't tried a MM cartridge with the HDX1,in fact it's been a long time since I last used a moving magnet or iron cartridge! Moving coils since 2012.
But it would be very useful to know what the capacitance value is on HDX1.
 
I've just ordered a 0.5m set of HDX1 cables from Mark Grant.

This is to connect the Technics SL-1210G with AT-VM95ML cartridge to the MM phono stage of my JVC AX-Z1010TN integrated amplifier.

If my calculations are correct? this should provide a loading to the AT-VM95ML of approx 154pF
Which is slap bang in the center of the recommended range for the AT-VM95ML of 100pF - 200pF.

Technics Arm Cable = 26pF
HDX1 - 0.5m = 28pF
AX-Z1010TN Phono Stage = 100pF

26 + 28 + 100 = 154pF

Next up I have to figure out what to do with my Technics SL-1210GR/AT-VM95E which is connected to a Clearaudio Nano V2 phono stage with an input loading of 220pF.
 
Earlier this evening, I swapped out the supplied Technics phono cable on the SL-1210G for an old original pair of 1.0m Rega Couple cables (I'm guessing these are about 80pF) wow - huge difference 'outstanding' compared to the stock Technics cable. I think it would be best if Technics didn't include a cable in the box!
 
Earlier this evening, I swapped out the supplied Technics phono cable on the SL-1210G for an old original pair of 1.0m Rega Couple cables (I'm guessing these are about 80pF) wow - huge difference 'outstanding' compared to the stock Technics cable. I think it would be best if Technics didn't include a cable in the box!

I'm not sure that cable itself isn't so bad but it's the plugs that I'm not keen on, they just don't seem to make a positive contact? Still it's good that the GR and the G give you the option to try something else.
 
I've just bought an Atoll phono stage for my new Technics 1200GR that I took delivery of a week ago. Even though both still running in, I'm enjoying the best vinyl sounds I've ever heard at home in 40 years of playing around with so much kit (Dual CS505, AR EB101, AR Legend/Merrill, Xerxes, Rega P3/RB600, LP12, Gyrodec with Tom Evan PS and Zeta, Transcriptors Saturn). Okay the transparency of the rest of my system helps, but this set up is audibly still better than streaming Amazon HD on the latest Node and even CD from my Sony ES both of which use my Aavik on board DAC. Rediscovering my records again!
 
I swapped Technics interconnects on 1210G to Mogami 2549 and didn't notice much difference. The outer contacts of the RCA plugs are a bit loose but that's nothing that can't be fixed with a pair of spoons.
 
Earlier this evening, I swapped out the supplied Technics phono cable on the SL-1210G for an old original pair of 1.0m Rega Couple cables (I'm guessing these are about 80pF) wow - huge difference 'outstanding' compared to the stock Technics cable.

I swapped Technics interconnects on 1210G to Mogami 2549 and didn't notice much difference..

The old Rega Couple is a rebranded Klotz studio cable with low capacitance.

Guess the setup, ears and used cartridge define the differences.
 
I have been playing around with the DV20X2 on the GR.

To start with I played Don’t Know Why by Norah Jones. Blimey. It was the best I’d heard it and was somewhat amazed. So subtle and smooth and liquid and luscious. Yet so quiet and clean and clear.

Next up I played some Icehouse. Hmmmm. It was just not good at all. The crispness and attack had all disappeared and it was all a bit one dimensional and fat. Weird. Then I trawled through a few more indie albums and I was so disappointed. Put the VM540ML back on and it was all great again. So it’s not my ears or my mood, something was definitely off. I decided to give up and sulk for a day or two :rolleyes:

After reflecting I realised the only thing I know that could have this kind of impact is tracking force. So I got out my little meter and set to exactly 2.0g (was probably around 2.1 previously). Pretty much the same. Dialled it back to 1.9g. Booom! Suddenly the DV was bouncing around to everything and I couldn’t stop playing stuff. Obvs Icehouse, Menzingers, Clash plus Amanda Marshall, Tanita Tikaram, Snuts, Elvis P. He he. Quite carried away I was. And finally back to Norah to make sure I wasn’t losing anything. OK, so she wasn’t maybe quite as deep and lush but still bloody majestic all the same.

So 0.1g made a huge difference! This is in the stock headshell. Im wondering about getting a 10g AT headshell and seeing if it makes the tracking weight less sensitive. Any thoughts?

I still have much playing about to do with the VM540ML, which so far I detect as being a little grainier but so full of life. Maybe I’ll end up preferring or at least being equally happy with the VM540 on indie/electronic music? I’m looking forward to finding out.

As an aside, it’s so easy to change cartridges and compare that it’s injecting some new life into this hobby for me. I’ll be saving up for a Nagoaka next! Thanks to this thread I’m going to be posting questions soon about interconnect cables and better matching the VM540 with the MM stage in my Luxman.

Probably the most interesting thing here is with the DV, that I’ve used on the LP12 for years, I don’t believe the GR gives away anything to my LP12/Ittok. I detect no loss of airiness or the old ‘boogie’ factor. In fact, there is more of the latter. And in other areas, because of system matching, the GR is streets ahead. It’s also built like a tank and is a joy to use, oddly more so than the LP12. It’s more tactile somehow and engaging, I will concede the queuing lever is probably the least satisfying aspect tho!

The other thing that I’m really curious about is this idea of deadness in the SL1200. I’m not sure I understand it. I’ve had an LP12 for many years of my life, and surely that’s supposed to be the epitome of a ‘live’ deck? I just don’t hear anything that makes me feel the GR is in any way dead. Yes, background noise has dropped hugely. Yes it’s crisp and almost CD like at times. But dead? No, definitely not. Obviously I have huge respect for Tony L and others with so much more experience of what’s out there, who feel this way. But personally, I’m a bit stumped!
 
Interesting - thanks for the write up. I too have a DV 20x2l on my GR (also set at 2g tracking force), although I've nothing to compare it to. I'm pretty much stuck with MCs unless I decide to try an alternative phono stage to my Arkless GTi Turbo. Might have a play about with tracking force this afternoon.
 
I have been playing around with the DV20X2 on the GR.

To start with I played Don’t Know Why by Norah Jones. Blimey. It was the best I’d heard it and was somewhat amazed. So subtle and smooth and liquid and luscious. Yet so quiet and clean and clear.

Next up I played some Icehouse. Hmmmm. It was just not good at all. The crispness and attack had all disappeared and it was all a bit one dimensional and fat. Weird. Then I trawled through a few more indie albums and I was so disappointed. Put the VM540ML back on and it was all great again. So it’s not my ears or my mood, something was definitely off. I decided to give up and sulk for a day or two :rolleyes:

After reflecting I realised the only thing I know that could have this kind of impact is tracking force. So I got out my little meter and set to exactly 2.0g (was probably around 2.1 previously). Pretty much the same. Dialled it back to 1.9g. Booom! Suddenly the DV was bouncing around to everything and I couldn’t stop playing stuff. Obvs Icehouse, Menzingers, Clash plus Amanda Marshall, Tanita Tikaram, Snuts, Elvis P. He he. Quite carried away I was. And finally back to Norah to make sure I wasn’t losing anything. OK, so she wasn’t maybe quite as deep and lush but still bloody majestic all the same.

So 0.1g made a huge difference! This is in the stock headshell. Im wondering about getting a 10g AT headshell and seeing if it makes the tracking weight less sensitive. Any thoughts?

I still have much playing about to do with the VM540ML, which so far I detect as being a little grainier but so full of life. Maybe I’ll end up preferring or at least being equally happy with the VM540 on indie/electronic music? I’m looking forward to finding out.

As an aside, it’s so easy to change cartridges and compare that it’s injecting some new life into this hobby for me. I’ll be saving up for a Nagoaka next! Thanks to this thread I’m going to be posting questions soon about interconnect cables and better matching the VM540 with the MM stage in my Luxman.

Probably the most interesting thing here is with the DV, that I’ve used on the LP12 for years, I don’t believe the GR gives away anything to my LP12/Ittok. I detect no loss of airiness or the old ‘boogie’ factor. In fact, there is more of the latter. And in other areas, because of system matching, the GR is streets ahead. It’s also built like a tank and is a joy to use, oddly more so than the LP12. It’s more tactile somehow and engaging, I will concede the queuing lever is probably the least satisfying aspect tho!

The other thing that I’m really curious about is this idea of deadness in the SL1200. I’m not sure I understand it. I’ve had an LP12 for many years of my life, and surely that’s supposed to be the epitome of a ‘live’ deck? I just don’t hear anything that makes me feel the GR is in any way dead. Yes, background noise has dropped hugely. Yes it’s crisp and almost CD like at times. But dead? No, definitely not. Obviously I have huge respect for Tony L and others with so much more experience of what’s out there, who feel this way. But personally, I’m a bit stumped!
Re deadness, have to say this is what I heard the last time I put our GR in the main system, with a Nagaoka MP500. It’s not what I heard the previous time, when I think I had an AT33EV on it. My take on it then is that it has the potential to sound that way to my ears, but it can probably by countered by other factors.
 
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I have been playing around with the DV20X2 on the GR.

To start with I played Don’t Know Why by Norah Jones. Blimey. It was the best I’d heard it and was somewhat amazed. So subtle and smooth and liquid and luscious. Yet so quiet and clean and clear.

Next up I played some Icehouse. Hmmmm. It was just not good at all. The crispness and attack had all disappeared and it was all a bit one dimensional and fat. Weird. Then I trawled through a few more indie albums and I was so disappointed. Put the VM540ML back on and it was all great again. So it’s not my ears or my mood, something was definitely off. I decided to give up and sulk for a day or two :rolleyes:

After reflecting I realised the only thing I know that could have this kind of impact is tracking force. So I got out my little meter and set to exactly 2.0g (was probably around 2.1 previously). Pretty much the same. Dialled it back to 1.9g. Booom! Suddenly the DV was bouncing around to everything and I couldn’t stop playing stuff. Obvs Icehouse, Menzingers, Clash plus Amanda Marshall, Tanita Tikaram, Snuts, Elvis P. He he. Quite carried away I was. And finally back to Norah to make sure I wasn’t losing anything. OK, so she wasn’t maybe quite as deep and lush but still bloody majestic all the same.

So 0.1g made a huge difference! This is in the stock headshell. Im wondering about getting a 10g AT headshell and seeing if it makes the tracking weight less sensitive. Any thoughts?

I still have much playing about to do with the VM540ML, which so far I detect as being a little grainier but so full of life. Maybe I’ll end up preferring or at least being equally happy with the VM540 on indie/electronic music? I’m looking forward to finding out.

As an aside, it’s so easy to change cartridges and compare that it’s injecting some new life into this hobby for me. I’ll be saving up for a Nagoaka next! Thanks to this thread I’m going to be posting questions soon about interconnect cables and better matching the VM540 with the MM stage in my Luxman.

Probably the most interesting thing here is with the DV, that I’ve used on the LP12 for years, I don’t believe the GR gives away anything to my LP12/Ittok. I detect no loss of airiness or the old ‘boogie’ factor. In fact, there is more of the latter. And in other areas, because of system matching, the GR is streets ahead. It’s also built like a tank and is a joy to use, oddly more so than the LP12. It’s more tactile somehow and engaging, I will concede the queuing lever is probably the least satisfying aspect tho!

The other thing that I’m really curious about is this idea of deadness in the SL1200. I’m not sure I understand it. I’ve had an LP12 for many years of my life, and surely that’s supposed to be the epitome of a ‘live’ deck? I just don’t hear anything that makes me feel the GR is in any way dead. Yes, background noise has dropped hugely. Yes it’s crisp and almost CD like at times. But dead? No, definitely not. Obviously I have huge respect for Tony L and others with so much more experience of what’s out there, who feel this way. But personally, I’m a bit stumped!


I don't think it is really an issue re the so called deadness, I think there are some variables involved but the thing is I played Thomas Dolby Dissidents on the GR/AT33EV and it sounded fantastic! Full of energy and dynamics.
 
Interesting - thanks for the write up. I too have a DV 20x2l on my GR (also set at 2g tracking force), although I've nothing to compare it to. I'm pretty much stuck with MCs unless I decide to try an alternative phono stage to my Arkless GTi Turbo. Might have a play about with tracking force this afternoon.

Now that would be really interesting! Please do share what you find. Will be really interesting to see if you find more 'life' at 1.9 or less.

I was a bit surprised because it was fine at 2.0 on the Ittok.

What headshell are you using with it?
 
I don’t understand it either. My Technics has never sounded dead to me. Maybe I got lucky, and I’ve only had AT or DV carts on it.
 


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