A soulless assessment, but ultimately dead right I suppose.
Knocking Naim!
- Thread starter koi
- Start date
A soulless assessment, but ultimately dead right I suppose.
I genuinely enjoyed all the Naim equipment I owned in particular my 72 & 140 however moved elsewhere as I found another company who made way better sounding equipment which was a great deal cheaper than the Naim equivalent.
I now own what I think is a very good sounding hifi..... something which I could never have afforded to do if I had stuck it out with Naim.
I now own what I think is a very good sounding hifi..... something which I could never have afforded to do if I had stuck it out with Naim.
whatsnext
Naimless
The last time I heard something Naim was when I bought my Rega 3 from the Sound Organisation (Richard?).
When I had paid for the Planar 3 he demonstrated an LP12, Naim system (thinking I might aspire to it). It was painful, a synthetic, edgy and thin sound. Never bothered seeking it out.
I think if I was offered some now I would decline.
When I had paid for the Planar 3 he demonstrated an LP12, Naim system (thinking I might aspire to it). It was painful, a synthetic, edgy and thin sound. Never bothered seeking it out.
I think if I was offered some now I would decline.
Mescalito
pfm Member
Cereal Killer
432
OK, you got me; 'was' 
e92fan
pfm Member
Interesting reading people's thoughts on the virtues of Naim...
I have been an avid Naim user since being a lucky teenager with a 32/140 setup 20 years ago, and have steadily upgraded since. In all that time I can safely say the only mistake I made was going from a 72 to a 102, which was a backwards step quickly rectified by swapping back to another 72.
In all that time however I was driven by exploring my musical tastes - as I grew older I got into the world of blues and jazz and it was my desire to hear more of the music that led me to upgrade. I think this is where the benefits of a scalable Naim system become most obvious, because in general each step will make an "improvement".
However, at what stage does upgrading become more a form of "Naim oneupmanship" rather than a quest for more music? The prices that Naim charge for their hipper range of equipment is frankly ludicrous - think how much actual music that can buy?!
I know a guy, he's not a friend, who has something like £25k invested into his Naim system. He is a big Naim forum user, but he uses it to lord over the other forum members who have more modest systems than he has. The sort of comments he makes are "well you can't hear the music properly because you're using only a 202 and you need to upgrade with a Supercap" etc... Sadly I seem to see more of this way of thinking, an advanced fanboi attitude I guess which grates with me more and more.
As a hifi business model I think Naim are supremely clever and Cyrus are similarly adept at encouraging growth and investment in the brand. However I just wonder if I would have been happier in the end with a decent integrated amp, a one box CD player, and the remaining £8000 invested in, oooh, about 7500 CDs of new music...
I have been an avid Naim user since being a lucky teenager with a 32/140 setup 20 years ago, and have steadily upgraded since. In all that time I can safely say the only mistake I made was going from a 72 to a 102, which was a backwards step quickly rectified by swapping back to another 72.
In all that time however I was driven by exploring my musical tastes - as I grew older I got into the world of blues and jazz and it was my desire to hear more of the music that led me to upgrade. I think this is where the benefits of a scalable Naim system become most obvious, because in general each step will make an "improvement".
However, at what stage does upgrading become more a form of "Naim oneupmanship" rather than a quest for more music? The prices that Naim charge for their hipper range of equipment is frankly ludicrous - think how much actual music that can buy?!
I know a guy, he's not a friend, who has something like £25k invested into his Naim system. He is a big Naim forum user, but he uses it to lord over the other forum members who have more modest systems than he has. The sort of comments he makes are "well you can't hear the music properly because you're using only a 202 and you need to upgrade with a Supercap" etc... Sadly I seem to see more of this way of thinking, an advanced fanboi attitude I guess which grates with me more and more.
As a hifi business model I think Naim are supremely clever and Cyrus are similarly adept at encouraging growth and investment in the brand. However I just wonder if I would have been happier in the end with a decent integrated amp, a one box CD player, and the remaining £8000 invested in, oooh, about 7500 CDs of new music...
John
Rack’em Up!
The Naim upgrade path became too much for some folks who couldn't just be happy with what they had. They needed to have the best offering from the company to feed their ego. Once this was no longer feasible they moved on to something more affordable and unique that in their mind was better.
Gaius
pfm Member
One thing is for sure, Naim is the most talked about brand I have come across.
The CB and Oliver era are classics and represent some of the best sounding kit for the cost out there.
The current range is very high quality and whilst a lot of it has got very expensive there are sweet spots in the line up that are good value.
Then there is the cult that comes along with it all.
All these factors are just too much for the evangelical keyboard warrior to resist; hence the Naim bashing that goes on.
The CB and Oliver era are classics and represent some of the best sounding kit for the cost out there.
The current range is very high quality and whilst a lot of it has got very expensive there are sweet spots in the line up that are good value.
Then there is the cult that comes along with it all.
All these factors are just too much for the evangelical keyboard warrior to resist; hence the Naim bashing that goes on.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
Well, if you really like Naim stuff, you can afford it and it sounds better than other stuff, then there's nothing "ludicrous" in its pricing. If you think only in terms of the music you could have bought if you hadn't bought Naim, then perhaps you weren't really in the position to buy it in the first place?
I know many folk with naim systems, all different, some much more modest than others, and thankfully I've never encountered anyone with the attitude of your acquaintance. To me, these systems all sound excellent. Some are better, sure, but then what two systems sound the same?
Naims best value for money amp currently available 172 pre amp, sadly under valued by many on naim forum due to its relatively low cost, so therefore it can't possibly be any good.
e92fan
pfm Member
This is the thing, I would never have been in a position to buy the system I have now if I had bought it all in one go. It has evolved over twenty years to the stage that it is! And that is the beauty of the business model that Naim (and Cyrus) uses. However, if I were to think of the next step, the next upgrade, I would then really need to consider if it is worthwhile - it isn't necessarily the cost, but what that amount of money could be used for instead (ie more music)
Thankfully you seem to be a person who understands that each hifi system at its own respective price point can make music and I think that is what hifi should be about. Sometimes I feel that certain hifi owners forget about the music and focus on the system
The definitive core of the problem with this brand.
e92fan
pfm Member
I don't think it is just the Naim brand this happens with though. I think it will happen with any brand that offers scalability and internal upgrades as it's business model. Cyrus would largely be the same for example. Consumers invest hard-earned money into a brand, and to give them the feeling that the money isn't wasted because of the upgrade line means that in many cases you have won that consumer's backing for life. Hence the development of the fanboi...
Gaius
pfm Member
The hand built, carefully crafted British-made (and owned) HiFi maker is alive and well and bringing back the qualities and customer service that made the CB era so well respected.
Yes indeed and a breath of fresh air to this corporate world in which we live.
The pasion for music is alive and well in such companies which is what this hobby certainly should be about foremost.
e92fan
pfm Member
Lol just make sure you put it back to the exact same degree angle on the support, otherwise the north/south magnetic forces will skew the sound envelope such that it will start sounding like a Linn...
MVV
pfm Member
Also the core of the silly subjectivist vs objectivist thing. Difficult to do the 'lording over' thing when someone points out your £10K poweramp sounds the same as a 1K pro amp.
e92fan
pfm Member
Incidentally I am not knocking Naim as a company or a brand, merely trying to balance some people's attitude towards it with the philosophy the brand offers. I think it is great that the British hifi industry seems to be as strong as ever
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Max,
Doesn't that seem like an odd position for a foo fighter? If you had good technical reasons for thinking so, or had done several dems and never heard a difference I could understand, but to just say it must be so is rather dogmatic.
Joe
You've never heard any Naim kit, but are convinced that the various power supplies don't make a difference?
Doesn't that seem like an odd position for a foo fighter? If you had good technical reasons for thinking so, or had done several dems and never heard a difference I could understand, but to just say it must be so is rather dogmatic.
Joe