Knocking Naim!

[koi]

Why do most of the time do we knock naim!

I myself have been guilty in the past, but i heard a system of theres the other day and it sounded quite good!

Maybe its the inevitable upgrade path that naim owners pursue !

I still rate there Naim Aro tonearm very highly


But in the end i think it is a good british product which produces decent gear

I still remember in the late 70s dreaming of owning a full naim /lp12 set up it

This was the system that got me into the hifi bug.

 

[narabdela]

... it sounded quite good!

Damned with faint praise?

 

[Guest432]

I had a Naim system and went down the upgrade route constantly. My falling out with Naim started when I bought some SBLs and said I didn't like the sound on their forum. I got all sorts of abuse ranging from I set them up wrong, they must be broken, my hearing isn't very good to I just don't know good quality sound when I hear it.

A lot of people over on the Naim forum are worse than apple fanbois or creationalists.

I moved away from Naim when I heard Gaius' Sugden amp and haven't looked back since.

I do like the sound of the supernait with Ovator S-400, think the UnitiQute is a great bit of kit and will probably buy the new DAC v1 at some point but am happy with my a Rega stuff (at the moment)

 

[Purité Audio]

Naim make decent kit, the room and loudspeakers are almost totally responsible for the 'sound' of any system.
Keith.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Naim make decent kit, the room and loudspeakers are almost totally responsible for the 'sound' of any system.
Keith.

Indeed, last time I listened to a few boxes in the back garden all I could hear was the sound of people laughing. Have you ever tried listening to a hi-fi without speakers or walls? What did you hear?

 

[aquapiranha]

I have only heard naim equipment once or twice and that was a good while ago but I do know a couple of people who were more than happy to escape the enveloping belief system that accompanies it. I think the fervour of its supporters borders on religious fanaticism, especially when you see yet another vastly overpriced product launched, only to be defended tooth and nail by the faithful despite the reality. Then there is the foo too...

 

[maxflinn]

I've never heard anything from Naim, I like the look of much of their kit though. Their amps seem underpowered (on paper) and overpriced yet sell like hot cakes on eBay so they obviously have a big reputation.

I'm surprised so few complain about the 'upgrade path' which includes their ridiculously priced external PSU's, but I guess if you can afford them and are a Naimee, you'll want them, I suppose.

 

[Pete MB&D]

I remember being told of the easy £2K a pop upgrade route.

Pete

I think its a bit more than that now!

 

[Tony L]

I've never heard anything from Naim, I like the look of much of their kit though. Their amps seem underpowered (on paper) and overpriced yet sell like hot cakes on eBay so they obviously have a big reputation.

I'm surprised so few complain about the 'upgrade path' which includes their ridiculously priced external PSU's, but I guess if you can afford them and are a Naimee, you'll want them, I suppose.

It's highly respected well-made and fully serviceable kit. Conservatively rated too as the amps have substantial power reserves and are capable of transients well in excess of the constant rating given (very different to some specs you may be familiar with). They retain excellent resale value because of proven reliability and long-term credibility - many of these basic designs have been around for decades. I'd argue that the chrome-bumper and olive eras now rank as 'classic audio kit' in the way of Quad IIs, Tannoy Reds and Golds, LS3/5As, Garrard 301, 401 etc. There will always be a market for this type of proven quality. I'm an ex-owner and still respect the stuff a lot. It's great kit.

 

[spanna]

Naim make decent kit, the room and loudspeakers are almost totally responsible for the 'sound' of any system.
Keith.

Jeez! What pure nonsense!!!

 

[Evil Emperor]

People knock it because it's popular and well-established in the UK hi-fi fraternity and they get to score anti-hero brownie points if they can kick against the establishment, without all the general nastiness of going on a march or getting arrested. It's like a small army of ageing, sweaty, morbidly obese James Dean wannabes in ill-fitting sweatshirts pontificating over something that real people (who would never go near these people IRL) dare to enjoy a lot.

There are also those with the curious patient memory of the celibate, who recall events from the 1980s, when Linn and Naim held the UK hi-fi world in their thrall. In a similar vein, my grandfather was once delayed by nearly two hours once when the LNER train he was supposed to catch was cancelled, and yet he received no recompense. Fortunately, he managed to extract a lot of mileage from that tale in his dotage, because he used to tell us the same story every single time we visited him for the last ten years of his life. So, perhaps the obsession with what this company did 30 years ago is a sign of early-onset dementia.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Naim and 99.999999% of the UK population – if they only knew it existed – would be delighted to own something that sounds so good, and is both designed and built in the UK (and known for being designed and built in the UK). I used Naim for years, and eventually moved on because I got itchy feet, but I still like and respect the brand, the ethos, the customer service... and would absolutely recommend it to anyone seriously interested in their music.

If I am truly honest with myself, since I moved away from Naim, I find myself listening more to the sound music makes than the music itself. There's an interrupt between the music and me that simply wasn't there when I was using Naim, so I'll probably come full circle one day. This is not unique to Naim, but Naim at its best encapsulates beautifully. Why there is some extra link to the music that is hard to attain elsewhere remains unclear, and will doubtless be dismissed as sentimental nonsense by those who think music is something to be endured between test tones. Nevertheless, my feelings on the matter stand.

 

[bob atherton]

I don't think I have ever knocked Naim, like many have said it's well made and good sounding.

I have now moved on to other stuff that I prefer; try as I may though I can't find better speakers than the amazing IBLs

 

[Tw99]

Naim kit is solidly engineered and built, works well, and retains its value like almost no other make. What's not to like ?

I sold my 82/napsc/hc/hc/250 setup simply to reduce box count from 5 to 1. I also didn't notice any significant sonic upgrade/downgrade when I got the big integrated I have now.

 

[aquapiranha]

People knock it because it's popular and well-established in the UK hi-fi fraternity and they get to score anti-hero brownie points if they can kick against the establishment, without all the general nastiness of going on a march or getting arrested. It's like a small army of ageing, sweaty, morbidly obese James Dean wannabes in ill-fitting sweatshirts pontificating over something that real people (who would never go near these people IRL) dare to enjoy a lot.

There are also those with the curious patient memory of the celibate, who recall events from the 1980s, when Linn and Naim held the UK hi-fi world in their thrall. In a similar vein, my grandfather was once delayed by nearly two hours once when the LNER train he was supposed to catch was cancelled, and yet he received no recompense. Fortunately, he managed to extract a lot of mileage from that tale in his dotage, because he used to tell us the same story every single time we visited him for the last ten years of his life. So, perhaps the obsession with what this company did 30 years ago is a sign of early-onset dementia.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Naim and 99.999999% of the UK population – if they only knew it existed – would be delighted to own something that sounds so good, and is both designed and built in the UK (and known for being designed and built in the UK). I used Naim for years, and eventually moved on because I got itchy feet, but I still like and respect the brand, the ethos, the customer service... and would absolutely recommend it to anyone seriously interested in their music.

If I am truly honest with myself, since I moved away from Naim, I find myself listening more to the sound music makes than the music itself. There's an interrupt between the music and me that simply wasn't there when I was using Naim, so I'll probably come full circle one day. This is not unique to Naim, but Naim at its best encapsulates beautifully. Why there is some extra link to the music that is hard to attain elsewhere remains unclear, and will doubtless be dismissed as sentimental nonsense by those who think music is something to be endured between test tones. Nevertheless, my feelings on the matter stand.

I think this post illustrates my earler point rather well.

 

[TPA]

I think it's got more to do with people treating kit as an extension of themselves and brands becoming psychologically embedded, one way or the other. I have used Naim in the past, and have listened to many fine systems with Naim components but don't own any today and don't really care one way or the other. Whatever floats your boat really. The silliness starts when people try to defend their kit, or others attack it. Your money, your choice, it's pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things any way.

Oops, just realised I use a Fraim, but maybe that doesn't count.

 

[Mike-B]

+1 Evil Emperor

Why knock Naim ????
Because there is nowt so queer as folk - thank goodness
Why do people complain about the state of the countries overcrowded roads & others sit in trees to stop the countryside being devastated
- 'cause we are not all robots & we each have our own opinions - even tho' its blatantly obvious to you that all the others are just plain wrong.

I'm an avid Naimite.
I like the idea of the upgrade path & I know PSU's are a genuine cornerstone of that. BUT I hate the ridiculous prices for what is not much more than a box of very basic parts - I voted with my feet.
Ridiculous pricing apart I like the idea of source & amp hierarchy, the classic range is a genuine level up in all respects from the entry level. The same applies but in considerably reduced bang for buck terms to the 500 series. I like the idea of separates & the ability to upgrade a single unit to suit your own whole system preferences. However, ‘been there & got the olive coloured tee-shirt, but I seem to have sorted my macho deficiency problems & have settled on a about half the number of boxes that (strictly in my own personal opinion you must understand) do a better job & don’t need an ugly high rise structure in the living room to store it all.

There’s nothing wrong with Naim if it fits your idea of music reproduction & you are not bothered about the marketing policies & pricing. It is only wrong when you & others tell everyone else they are wrong.

 

[aquapiranha]

Jeez! What pure nonsense!!!

Nonsense? Do you realise how many different surfaces most of the sound you hear comes into contact with before it reaches your golden ears? Much of this sound will be absorbed or attenuated before you hear it, having a big impact. This is of course after the speakers have produced the sound, and if they miss out, reduce or increase any facet of the sound, you will not be remedying that by changing a mains cable.

 

[Guest432]

It's also naims attitude to 3rd party products, try asking what people think of a Teddy Pardo psu or Avondale mods and see how quickly your posts are deleted.

Naim want the monopoly on hifi and think that stifling discussions on their forum will force people to only buy their products or power supplies.

The naim forum is nothing but a marketing arena for people to discuss how great naim are.

 

[YNWOAN]

Fanaticism is rampant in the world of hi-fi full stop - not just with regard to Naim. It is also common for 'enthusiasts' to denigrate certain makes for no other reason than it makes them feel better about themselves somehow!

 

[Mike Reed]

Nonsense? Do you realise how many different surfaces most of the sound you hear comes into contact with before it reaches your golden ears? Much of this sound will be absorbed or attenuated before you hear it, having a big impact. This is of course after the speakers have produced the sound, and if they miss out, reduce or increase any facet of the sound, you will not be remedying that by changing a mains cable.

Keith has a valid point there, and if SPANNA (or anybody else) has listened a few times to their regular I.B. or ported speakers in open space (i.e. back garden?) as I have, you'll appreciate the difference.

Not all m/c speakers respond to this; Isobariks certainly don't due to upward-firing tweeters and wall positioning, but my ProAc Response Threes and Rogers LS 6s produced such ethereal and naturally imaging music in my garden that it took a while to adjust to the same indoors, despite the room being 25 x 15 feet with 10 foot high ceiling. All from either 82 or 52 and 250 or 135 Naim amplification.