At last... (Audiolab) - part VII
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PhilCTTE
Senior mumbler
Pretty much agree with all of that Chris.
DLNA music streamers in AV processors seem to be the most basic in UI very poor. To the extent of open folder and scroll to music file with noddy search options.
All down to the extreme costs in software development involved in producing a decent front end UI.
Although the Sonos is basic in terms of the latest iTunes PC offerings it executes everything pretty well without failing. Its even integrated LastFm Napster and most importantly Spotify.
I''ve briefly looked at the UI of the MF MClic (about 1K) and the UI is clunky. Not sure if they have app for that yet !
My criteria is the following
1. Price (for me personally £500 max)
2. Sound quality, clean digital output
3. Reliability. Pausing or crackles in replay or wifi drop outs if used wirelessly, syncing between rooms poorly
4. The ability to decode all the popular file formats
5. Ability to support HiRes formats (can't decide if this is a 4 or 5 having only heard hi-res once)
6. Usability. This can be broken down into many
Easy to use GUI front end on PC and or remote devices is a must (Apple and android)
Gapless playback,
Playlist managment,
library managment ,
Internet music services like lastfm,spotify napster and internet radio.
Other nice to haves like star rating favourites, cross fading, random
7. Flexibility of connections to support interface types optical, coax, async usb hires for connection to DACGapless playback,
Playlist managment,
library managment ,
Internet music services like lastfm,spotify napster and internet radio.
Other nice to haves like star rating favourites, cross fading, random
8. Multiroom capability incl different playback or partymodes.
9. Upgradability or future proofing. Not just about online updates but also the stability and ability of a company to provide support if things go wrong.
Waiting to trial the new streamer from Simple Audio at £500 , but again I'm paying for a DAC I don't need.
One of the problems with the streamer market is that there are more and more software services such as Spotify and MOG (not in UK yet) and ITunes or an Apple equivalent I'm sure in the future. The standalone devices are struggling to integrate these , so it's making the PC solution a stronger contender.
Which is why I stated ealier "PC based stripped down and bespoke components geared not for multi room just a dedicated audiophile processor based product which allows the user to pick and choose the software of their choice. No DAC just a quality digital signal output to interface to the MDAC or DQ"
Spend the effort on good hardware design and leave the (expensive) software elements to others. Not sure how isolated or modular you can make the hardware unless its a PC re-housed with better power supply , isolation and SSD. I've hit a brick wall on my knowledge here
I use a squeezebox system (1 duet and 2 radios) and am not sure what a new box would add besides nicer cosmetics than the squeezebox receiver, and a way to eliminate jitter, which a MDAC could almost do.
This sounds like a modded receiver (or touch) if mods could be done on the sync clock, etc. (as the PSU can already be improved), but I'm not sure that this is a valid business model for Audiolab.
I'm also thinking about what one would lose by going with another solution, including:
- money
- logitech's IT experience, expertise and licenses for/compatibility with various formats, feeds, etc.
- integration with the squeezebox system (multizones, VPN, remote access to server, ipeng, etc.)
- multiple interface options (from IR remote to squeezebox controller to ipad/pod/android to PC and IP)
- distracting John and Dominik from their audio pursuits where they're hard to replace: QDAC, amps, power supply, CD transport with world clock, phono preamp... the list is long and they keep on adding to it ;-)!
The same could be said for users of Sonos systems, etc.
This sounds like a modded receiver (or touch) if mods could be done on the sync clock, etc. (as the PSU can already be improved), but I'm not sure that this is a valid business model for Audiolab.
I'm also thinking about what one would lose by going with another solution, including:
- money
- logitech's IT experience, expertise and licenses for/compatibility with various formats, feeds, etc.
- integration with the squeezebox system (multizones, VPN, remote access to server, ipeng, etc.)
- multiple interface options (from IR remote to squeezebox controller to ipad/pod/android to PC and IP)
- distracting John and Dominik from their audio pursuits where they're hard to replace: QDAC, amps, power supply, CD transport with world clock, phono preamp... the list is long and they keep on adding to it ;-)!
The same could be said for users of Sonos systems, etc.
My cat's deader than your cat!
although I didn't spot this first time. There's no extracted clock. The clock used throughout is the master clock generated by the DAC
Mind you, any way to kill a cat seems fine by me
re the posts earlier about MDAC finish - had a closer look at the audiolab site just now.
As far as I can see the black/silver swatches on the finish tab are the 'old' brushed finish but the pictures on the image tab are different - presumably the new/correct finish?
Comparing those images to the MDAC video on what hifi site I really cant see any difference - can someone who's seen one in the flesh comment?
As far as I can see the black/silver swatches on the finish tab are the 'old' brushed finish but the pictures on the image tab are different - presumably the new/correct finish?
Comparing those images to the MDAC video on what hifi site I really cant see any difference - can someone who's seen one in the flesh comment?
JohnW
pfm member
As I posted earlier, the finish shown on the Audiolab website is INCORRECT.
The production finish is bead-blast (as the top lids on the CD/CDQ's) - or as the rear of the iPad - they are NOT "Hair Line" as the exsisting CD/CDQ front panels.
I'm sorry to say that the Audiolab website has MANY errors - nobody comes to us to confirm the information first - thus its a total mess.
John
although I didn't spot this first time. There's no extracted clock. The clock used throughout is the master clock generated by the DAC
Mind you, any way to kill a cat seems fine by me
But the frequency of the clock in the DAC is driven by the (inherently varying) frequency of the clock embedded in the s/pdif input - hence the need to dejitter, through PLLs or ASRC or whatver. No matter how good that is, it can't be as good as not having to in the first place.
I also do not like all in box solutions, especially if you know that most of those functions will not be used, they just move price up more then necessary. But we also should not mix different things. For example like Xbox or Playstation where hdd is part of system and something like modern media players which you can run with or without hdd, they just for storage and interchangeable as whole bunch of other types data storage. If box is big enough you can put in inside if you wish.
2.5" 5400rpm hdd are silent things even more inside a portable case. Or if something complete silent - usb memory sticks 16GB for 12 pounds. We anyway need a more serious storage for backup purpose. And yes, they are noisy, not good for music listening.
I do not think that networked data (it does not matter if they call it upnp) is something more easy to work with than spdif. On network you still have all kind of trouble - collisions, bandwith managment, aplications priority, packet loss and who knows what else. You still need to make sure that all data is received. Audio data especially still will heavily depend on software.
I had a fanless computer, quite modern one, based on AMD E350 cpu, thinking about playing music and movies. It was quite useless for everything else. And also you need to think what to do with big bright monitor while listening, otherwise you can not manage playlists (the same thing with media players). Thank you, bye bye. Of course, it is possible to build powerful and silent, but for what money. Unless industry comes up with something simpe and purpose built, I will stick to old way - burn compilations onto CD-R, switch of computer and give a chance to CD player earn its retirement.
2.5" 5400rpm hdd are silent things even more inside a portable case. Or if something complete silent - usb memory sticks 16GB for 12 pounds. We anyway need a more serious storage for backup purpose. And yes, they are noisy, not good for music listening.
I do not think that networked data (it does not matter if they call it upnp) is something more easy to work with than spdif. On network you still have all kind of trouble - collisions, bandwith managment, aplications priority, packet loss and who knows what else. You still need to make sure that all data is received. Audio data especially still will heavily depend on software.
I had a fanless computer, quite modern one, based on AMD E350 cpu, thinking about playing music and movies. It was quite useless for everything else. And also you need to think what to do with big bright monitor while listening, otherwise you can not manage playlists (the same thing with media players). Thank you, bye bye. Of course, it is possible to build powerful and silent, but for what money. Unless industry comes up with something simpe and purpose built, I will stick to old way - burn compilations onto CD-R, switch of computer and give a chance to CD player earn its retirement.
For what its worth (prob posted this before) my own solution is just a really cheap matx system (came with mobile cpu so v.quiet) that I sourced second hand for £100, a USB flash stick and the XBMC live cd.
Basically install XBMC, drop down to a shell session and install MPD ontop. Then point that to my storage devices that hold the media, and point the MPD instance to the audiolab's USB impl. You can then control the music from any phone that can get an MPD client (nearly all) as a remote. On top of that, it doubles as a very versatile media playback device for videos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Player_Daemon
http://xbmc.org/
So in the spirit of JohnW, if anyone is interested in such a setup and wants a hand in setting up their own little setup as such and your in central london, drop me a PM. I wont expect anything but the chance to abuse your hifi ... a little!
Basically install XBMC, drop down to a shell session and install MPD ontop. Then point that to my storage devices that hold the media, and point the MPD instance to the audiolab's USB impl. You can then control the music from any phone that can get an MPD client (nearly all) as a remote. On top of that, it doubles as a very versatile media playback device for videos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Player_Daemon
http://xbmc.org/
So in the spirit of JohnW, if anyone is interested in such a setup and wants a hand in setting up their own little setup as such and your in central london, drop me a PM. I wont expect anything but the chance to abuse your hifi ... a little!
Sure you can. With Foobar and JRiver you can use a remote control application on an Android phone or tablet to manage playlists and control the player. I use Foobar and my monitor (well actually a 46" plasma TV...) is off
Pawel
P.S. XBMC also has a remote control application for Android, but it is not capable of bit perfect playback on 24 bit only USB DACs... Pity as it has an excellent interface and good Android app...
Sure you can. With Foobar and JRiver you can use a remote control application on an Android phone or tablet to manage playlists and control the player. I use Foobar and my monitor (well actually a 46" plasma TV...) is off
Pawel
P.S. XBMC also has a remote control application for Android, but it is not capable of bit perfect playback on 24 bit only USB DACs... Pity as it has an excellent interface and good Android app...
That's true and why I use MPD in addition. However, XBMC when left to 100% volume and playing 16-bit stuff will be bit-perfect as of a recent release.
Yep understood John. What I was trying to say (not very well without pictures) was that the MDAC 'finish tab' shows this picture.
But to my eyes this from the MDAC 'image tab' looks different
It actually looks very similar to this from the CDQ 'image tab'
So i'm guessing that the 2nd picture might be a fair representation of the MDAC (looks very similar to the what hifi video)?
Understand I could just wait to pick the silver one up and then I'll know for sure what it looks (and sounds) like
Not with 8200CD, CDQ or rDAC for example, as all these can only accept 24 bit signal on USB and WASAPI in XBMC can only talk to 16/24bit devices and fails to start (what is nicely visible in XBMC log file, but not visible on the screen). So even if you set XBMC to use WASAPI driver on these devices, the XBMC will actually use DirectSound driver, which is not bit perfect...
But indeed with 16/24bit devices like TeraDak Teralink X2, XBMC uses WASAPI correctly and plays bit perfect sound - actually both 16 and 24 bit sources.
It's different in live CD / linux - its certainly capable and confirmed by the devs of XBMC linux. But yes, that problem exists on the Windows version, rather annoyingly.
JohnW
pfm member
Understand I could just wait to pick the silver one up and then I'll know for sure what it looks (and sounds) like
Yes - Indeed OK, That was quick. I already have a new CDQ
My previous unit was serial number 121, the new one is 889 and it is trigger equipped. The same software versions though, so I still have faulty v86 servo software...
And just when I thought that my "adventures" are over, that "new" CDQ started making weird noises when the CD tray was closed without a CD on it... As it turned out it wasn't entirely new unit, but an ex-demo unit, which probably survived some crash tests in the past... Luckilly it was quickly replaced with a brand new one straight from the distributor warehouse. The "newest" one is s/n 1012, but still the same software versions as my previous two CDQ units.
JohnW
pfm member
"new" CDQ started making weird noises when the CD tray was closed without a CD on it.
Sounds like the Disc Clamping "Puck" rubbing with no disk in the tray - sadly "Normal" with this loader Mech. Its OK with a Disc loaded (the thickness of the disc prevents the Puck from rubbing within its "Hole" on the top of the support "bridge" - above the loader)...
Sounds like the Disc Clamping "Puck" rubbing with no disk in the tray - sadly "Normal" with this loader Mech. Its OK with a Disc loaded (the thickness of the disc prevents the Puck from rubbing within its "Hole" on the top of the support "bridge" - above the loader)...
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