ooops... you're right... thanks for straightening that out...
still, the question still stands... can anybody report any differences between the usb and coax or optical inputs?
best regards
André
At last... (Audiolab) - part III
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still, the question still stands... can anybody report any differences between the usb and coax or optical inputs?
best regards
André
We've made it sound like a lot of work. All I've really done to get to this stage is to log in to the squeezebox, edit a file and reboot ! The extra tools I installed weren't really related to getting the USB working.
Yeah just want to confirm that I made a hash of the file names due to too much beer on an afternoon, 
It took about 30 seconds to transfer the tools and 5 mins to get all the mods working, no need to edit any files with soundchecks method and you can turn off all outputs except usb, its the easyest mods ive ever done, i just need to get the girlfriend away from the tv so i can have a listen. Soooooo c'mon TimR, we are waiting for the verdict on the sound quality and reliability through the CDQ, just for the record I dont have one yet and even if its flakey I will still get one of the products talked about here, either CDQ or QDAC.
It took about 30 seconds to transfer the tools and 5 mins to get all the mods working, no need to edit any files with soundchecks method and you can turn off all outputs except usb, its the easyest mods ive ever done, i just need to get the girlfriend away from the tv so i can have a listen. Soooooo c'mon TimR, we are waiting for the verdict on the sound quality and reliability through the CDQ, just for the record I dont have one yet and even if its flakey I will still get one of the products talked about here, either CDQ or QDAC.
JohnW
pfm member
Arthur,
I understand your trepidation of joining the "Streaming Audio revolution" so am I - But there’s a really simple no fuss method - with easy user interface - and no messing!
Buy an iPad and the iPad Camera Connection kit (GBP30 or so, Apple Part# MC531ZM/A), then simply plug in the CDQ into the iPad via USB cable into the Camera Connection adaptor - and you have 44.1KHz 16Bit Async USB audio - really easy.
Convert your CD's into Apple Lossless in iTunes and you will not go back to using CD's.
With the iPad connected you can also stream Internet Radio etc painlessly to your CDQ...
The iPad's relatively cheap, you not only gain a great Media player, you also gain a great internet browser, and everything else the iPad is...
The CDQ Remote control / Front panel also controls the iPad’s media player…
I understand your trepidation of joining the "Streaming Audio revolution" so am I - But there’s a really simple no fuss method - with easy user interface - and no messing!
Buy an iPad and the iPad Camera Connection kit (GBP30 or so, Apple Part# MC531ZM/A), then simply plug in the CDQ into the iPad via USB cable into the Camera Connection adaptor - and you have 44.1KHz 16Bit Async USB audio - really easy.
Convert your CD's into Apple Lossless in iTunes and you will not go back to using CD's.
With the iPad connected you can also stream Internet Radio etc painlessly to your CDQ...
The iPad's relatively cheap, you not only gain a great Media player, you also gain a great internet browser, and everything else the iPad is...
The CDQ Remote control / Front panel also controls the iPad’s media player…
Hi John,
can you also connect to the iPad a usb3 hard drive with 24b/96khz files??
Will they play at 24/96 or 16/44.1?
I also have some problems with the cd-drive. It will not play some of the regular cds ( not just cd-rs). I was demod the unit to a friend of mine i got very embarrased when his cd would not play.....Anything that can be done in Greece please?
Thanks,
Nikos
BTW the Minimum Phase filter is my current favourite.
It's not working properly yet... as of yesterday, sound was coming through but with a pop or click every few seconds, so something's still wrong. Unfortunately I know very little about Linux, and even less about USB drivers. If there's any progress, I'll let you know, but I think I have quite a lot of reading and stabbing in the dark to do!
A question for any USB experts.. am I correct that asynchronous works by having the DAC "dictate" the data rate/freq of the SB? If so, how often you would expect the SB to be updating its data freq (apologies for any wrong terminology)? It's just that I've been monitoring the Momentary freq= value in the stream0 file on the SB while playing into the CDQ, and the value only ever changes at the start of each new song.. not while it is playing. It might just be that more frequent changes simply aren't being reflected in that file of course.
If only I could be more clever!
...I bet Dominik could get it working in 10 minutes
JohnW
pfm member
Nikos,
Apple currently does not support Hi-Res Audio from iTunes via the iPad, but most people still have 44.1 KHz files - iPad will handle these simply - and with no messing about, and that’s all most people including myself need. Until Music I care to listen too becomes readily available in Hi-Res I'm not going to lose any sleep over the iPad lack of HiRes support.
Sure there’s there are other devices that can replay Hi-Res Audio, but they rapidly get to complex for most people – I only want to listen to Music not become an expert computer user – this is where Apple scores – simple, easy – even my parents can use Apple devices…
Damaged and scratched CD's come in many forms - we cannot guarantee to play all forms of scratched disks - but off course the CDQ will play "decent" condition disks. The update software (CD Servo Rev 85) trades shock resistance (the unit being hit) in exchange for playability (better able to cope with scratched and damaged disks) - this software update can be performed by your local Audiolab service centre once it has been officially released - we are still testing it, but it should be available within a month.
norriemal,
Looking forward to meeting you - and your unit next month
Apple currently does not support Hi-Res Audio from iTunes via the iPad, but most people still have 44.1 KHz files - iPad will handle these simply - and with no messing about, and that’s all most people including myself need. Until Music I care to listen too becomes readily available in Hi-Res I'm not going to lose any sleep over the iPad lack of HiRes support.
Sure there’s there are other devices that can replay Hi-Res Audio, but they rapidly get to complex for most people – I only want to listen to Music not become an expert computer user – this is where Apple scores – simple, easy – even my parents can use Apple devices…
Damaged and scratched CD's come in many forms - we cannot guarantee to play all forms of scratched disks - but off course the CDQ will play "decent" condition disks. The update software (CD Servo Rev 85) trades shock resistance (the unit being hit) in exchange for playability (better able to cope with scratched and damaged disks) - this software update can be performed by your local Audiolab service centre once it has been officially released - we are still testing it, but it should be available within a month.
norriemal,
Looking forward to meeting you - and your unit
next monthWell I've had my replacement CDQ for well over a week now, and I'm pleased to say everything seems to be hunky dory.
I've just changed a few things round in the living room, and put the CDQ, and my amp, in a different rack. Currently playing a high res of 'A Night At The Opera' through my Touch which is connected via optical (none of that messing around with hacks here!). It certainly sounds better than it used to connected directly to the amp, though not quite as good as direct CD replay.
The CDQ definitely digs out more detail than I have been used to, and is a very pleasing listen. Just starting messing about with the different filters, and is currently on slow roll off, but I think it's too early to report on which setting I prefer. I have a few more experiments to try in the coming weeks as I have a new PC being built, I'll be getting JRiver to go on there and my laptop, and I also have an Apple TV2 which I'm going to give a whirl through the CDQ.
On the CD reading front, my unit has only struggled to read a CD if it has been left in and tries to read it on start up. Pressing eject and reloading the CD has solved this problem, as has removing the CD before switching off the unit I haven't tried any copied discs.
Good to speak with you last week John, I hope you've discovered the reason behind the couple of failed units. And for all the doubters out there, I think a couple of failed CDQ's is not a huge rate for the ammount of product that has shifted, though I do understand why people have concerns around the display brightness and CDR replay, but surely these are minor glitches, not deal breakers. And both issues are being dealt with. FWIW, I have my display turned off.
Still not heard from Audiolab re:amp mod.
I've just changed a few things round in the living room, and put the CDQ, and my amp, in a different rack. Currently playing a high res of 'A Night At The Opera' through my Touch which is connected via optical (none of that messing around with hacks here!). It certainly sounds better than it used to connected directly to the amp, though not quite as good as direct CD replay.
The CDQ definitely digs out more detail than I have been used to, and is a very pleasing listen. Just starting messing about with the different filters, and is currently on slow roll off, but I think it's too early to report on which setting I prefer. I have a few more experiments to try in the coming weeks as I have a new PC being built, I'll be getting JRiver to go on there and my laptop, and I also have an Apple TV2 which I'm going to give a whirl through the CDQ.
On the CD reading front, my unit has only struggled to read a CD if it has been left in and tries to read it on start up. Pressing eject and reloading the CD has solved this problem, as has removing the CD before switching off the unit
I haven't tried any copied discs.Good to speak with you last week John, I hope you've discovered the reason behind the couple of failed units. And for all the doubters out there, I think a couple of failed CDQ's is not a huge rate for the ammount of product that has shifted, though I do understand why people have concerns around the display brightness and CDR replay, but surely these are minor glitches, not deal breakers. And both issues are being dealt with. FWIW, I have my display turned off.
Still not heard from Audiolab re:amp mod.
Thanks for the pointer John. As per your comments, there is already talk on other forums about the SB USB driver being an old one and not fully up to the job of Async. A couple of people are pushing to get Logitech to add an updated driver to the firmware. You've just made me realise I haven't really sat and listened to the damn thing (even over spdif) since it arrived on Saturday
Jek - the DaCapo is a wonderful DAC as you're well aware, but mine has now found a new home courtesy of ebay (i used it with a clock-locked cardinal transport bythe way). You really should go and have a listen to the CDQ.
Thanks for the pointer John. As per your comments, there is already talk on other forums about the SB USB driver being an old one and not fully up to the job of Async. A couple of people are pushing to get Logitech to add an updated driver to the firmware. You've just made me realise I haven't really sat and listened to the damn thing (even over spdif) since it arrived on Saturday
John Swenson has a firmware for the touch that includes the latest ALSA driver, I know he is trying to get it official but he seems to be handing it out via pm, only thing is the mp3 and wireless support or lack of. I will keep an eye on this thread for future updates.
It's not working properly yet... as of yesterday, sound was coming through but with a pop or click every few seconds, so something's still wrong. Unfortunately I know very little about Linux, and even less about USB drivers. If there's any progress, I'll let you know, but I think I have quite a lot of reading and stabbing in the dark to do!
A question for any USB experts.. am I correct that asynchronous works by having the DAC "dictate" the data rate/freq of the SB? If so, how often you would expect the SB to be updating its data freq (apologies for any wrong terminology)? It's just that I've been monitoring the Momentary freq= value in the stream0 file on the SB while playing into the CDQ, and the value only ever changes at the start of each new song.. not while it is playing. It might just be that more frequent changes simply aren't being reflected in that file of course.
If only I could be more clever!
...I bet Dominik could get it working in 10 minutes
Hi Tim,
I have no in-depth knowledge of Linux myself. All I know is that sound including soundcard drivers are managed by ALSA. The level of support for USB Audio Class devices vary between versions of ALSA. Recent versions have no problems with Async sink and in fact even support USB Audio Class 2.0 - like Mac OS X and unlike any past, current or future version of Windows.
USB as a bus protocol knows 4 kinds of transfers - Control, Interrupt, Bulk and Isochronous. The first one is used for basic device management, second is for regular delivery of small amounts of data, third is for burst transfers of large amount of data and the last, Isochronous, is for continuous streaming of data with guaranteed reserved bandwidth and fixed latency.
USB Audio uses Isochronous transfers to send audio samples. They are delivered in packets every 1 millisecond. There are three methods of synchronization - Adaptive, Synchronous and Asynchronous. The first expects the output device to monitor how much data is coming over USB and adjust it's playback speed / clock to accommodate it. Second method uses the periodic 1ms frame rate of USB as the reference, so that there is always a known amount of data coming every 1ms and therefore the output device needs to adjust it's playback speed / clock to be synchronous with the USB bus. Lastly, Asynchronous method let the output device dictate how much data is to be delivered every USB frame / every 1ms, so it's playback speed / clock can remain fixed and instead the data rate is being adjusted. This feedback information is being communicated by the output device back to the USB host say 30 times a second.
Your logs show that ALSA is getting some feedback as it's reporting momentary freq different than nominal. I wouldn't read too much into the fact the number is not changing during playback - perhaps thats just the way the logging works. It seems though that regardless of the rate feedback received, the data flow is not being adjusted. In any case, to really understand what's going on, one would have to look at the USB traffic with a bus analyzer. I'd volunteer for that, but I have no access to the SB Touch.
Dominik
Yesterday I was doing some tests to identify the reason for the signal lock problem of my CDQ. I tested with 2 different computers and 2 different external sound cards to feed the cdq with spdif signal but also tried the usb connection directly to the cdq.
The results where that from time to time, when using the spdif connection, there was a very short (less than a sec) skip and on the cdq the message was "no lock". The problem was more frequent with 24/96 material. I use foobar and tried wasapi, kernel streaming and asio, all doing the same...
With the usb connection, I still sometimes have the problem, less frequent than spdif though. It is also happening with either wasapi or kernel but so far never happened with asio... The message on cdq this time is '' error''.
Any ideas what could be wrong? I was using the above setup with my previous dacs (beresford caiman and behringher ultramatch pro) without any problems at all.
Last but not least, when pulling the rca cable out from one of the inputs, the outer "ring" of the female plug of cdq (the grounding) come out too!
The connector of the rca cable I was using was tight but still never experienced any problem with my previous equipment. Anyway I pushed it back inside the plug and it is working for now but I do not know if there are issues with the connection. What if the grounding is not connected well? I am afraid that quality-wise there are issues that need reconsidering...
The results where that from time to time, when using the spdif connection, there was a very short (less than a sec) skip and on the cdq the message was "no lock". The problem was more frequent with 24/96 material. I use foobar and tried wasapi, kernel streaming and asio, all doing the same...
With the usb connection, I still sometimes have the problem, less frequent than spdif though. It is also happening with either wasapi or kernel but so far never happened with asio... The message on cdq this time is '' error''.
Any ideas what could be wrong? I was using the above setup with my previous dacs (beresford caiman and behringher ultramatch pro) without any problems at all.
Last but not least, when pulling the rca cable out from one of the inputs, the outer "ring" of the female plug of cdq (the grounding) come out too!
The connector of the rca cable I was using was tight but still never experienced any problem with my previous equipment. Anyway I pushed it back inside the plug and it is working for now but I do not know if there are issues with the connection. What if the grounding is not connected well? I am afraid that quality-wise there are issues that need reconsidering...
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