Nope, you are not the only one..
Mine (home trial demo unit #2) 8200cdq does that too. Do you think that it's usually the first or the last song on a cd that makes those hiccups and pauses?
Remara, FINLAND
At last... (Audiolab) - part III
- Thread starter MrScott
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Nope, you are not the only one..
Mine (home trial demo unit #2) 8200cdq does that too. Do you think that it's usually the first or the last song on a cd that makes those hiccups and pauses?
Remara, FINLAND
just curious, what serial number do you guys with the trouble players have? mine is B0134 and so far no issues - fingers crossed.
had it over at a local forumers place this morning and compared briefly to a very high-end japanese cdp (cant remember the brand or model). My host was very impressed with the CDQ and said it may sound better than his $$$$$ machine..
the system was Krell mono blocks and 2-box preamp - Dynaudio C2 speakers.
edit - the cpd it was up against was the Reimyo CDP-777 which is rather well regarded $14000 player..
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/combak2/cdp.html
had it over at a local forumers place this morning and compared briefly to a very high-end japanese cdp (cant remember the brand or model). My host was very impressed with the CDQ and said it may sound better than his $$$$$ machine..
the system was Krell mono blocks and 2-box preamp - Dynaudio C2 speakers.
edit - the cpd it was up against was the Reimyo CDP-777 which is rather well regarded $14000 player..
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/combak2/cdp.html
Calvin&Hobbes
Active Member
Nope, you are not the only one..
Mine (home trial demo unit #2) 8200cdq does that too. Do you think that it's usually the first or the last song on a cd that makes those hiccups and pauses?
Remara, FINLAND
Hi Remara, that's what I thought at first. However, yesterday the player gave a reading error in the middle of an CD as good as new (track no 8). Darn!
Good that your's is a demo. I bought mine at an internetshop, for the single reason that Audiolab-NL does not market the CDQ
Otherwise I would certainly take a drive to the dealer. It is a failure that can only be demonstrated by listening. After all nothing is broken.
JohnW
pfm member
Hi – arrived safely back to Czech Rep.
Norriemal,
I’m very sorry I didn’t not get a chance to drop by – I somehow missed your PM with your contact details – I’m not sure when it arrived, last week was crazy busy, once I was able to get to sit down in the evenings and read Emails etc I was totally gone…
Not sure if you can bring your unit to Bristol Hi-Fi show, or I can visit you during my trip to the UK from 20th of Feb.
Pls. don’t feel I left you out – I’m very sorry about your display issues – and hopefully we will have a chance towards the end of the month to solve them – and update your machine with the latest software.
Also, if anyone brings there CD/CDQ’s over to the Bristol show, we can also updated to the latest software versions – with all improvements (including display dimming and extra filters for CD).
C&H,
We have a software update to improve the readability of the CD’s – it basically trades-off shock resistance over readability – so better readability for worst “shock” resistance. As the units are designed for home use – Shock resistance is not that important. We have also improved the software so that once it encounters a “playability event” or shock; the unit will “eventually” recover and continue playing if it can.
We drive though Holland (very short section between Belgium and Germany) on our way to and from Czech Rep. So I can stop by and update your machine if it helps you out.
It does sound like your machine is not operating to at its best – So I will also swap out the Laser Mech.
Filters…. That’s why we added the options of selectable filters, small but worthwhile “system tuning” – problem is you end up saying I preferred this filter for this type of music / recordings, but then I want “Bass Heavy” and its OT DD etc etc
Remara,
Finland’s a bit off the beaten track for me to drop by, but once we have the software released (with readability updates – CD servo software Revision 85 upwards) – Audiolab main service centers can perform the updates.
Muz640,
Thanks for the chuckle, somehow unfortunately my Wife Renata does not share the same opinion of my “skill” set…
Dane – Rice cookers are not on my list of items I repair – If my wife found out I would have endless requests for “help” best stay fixing the “easier” items like Amps and CD players…
TimR,
Thank you and your family for making time for us to pop around “uninvited” – I’m sorry for the short notice, but I had no idea when and how I could make time to visit the UK, I was in a meeting in Germany during the weekend, and decided on the spur of the moment it would be easier to drive directly from Germany then return to Czech Rep. and fly - then try and rent a car in the UK etc – I also (don’t ask why) only have an Automatic driving license – makes for fun trying to rent a car in the UK – “What ONLY Auto driving license - can you not drive?” etc
I happy the background hum has gone, and the attenuated leads (-12dB) have fixed your “hiss issue” with unbalanced leads.
I was as interested as anyone concerning Tim's “Hiss” issues – so I kind of invited myself over to have a listen for myself.
Turns out that driving 2900km in the preceding 48 hours tends to “dull” your HF hearing with the constant background road noise.
I could only hear the “hiss” with my Ear right up against Tim’s tweeters – but Tim demonstrated that he can hear it from his seating position – I asked Renata listen – she could only identify the Hiss once she was made aware of it by listing to against the tweeters – “Identify” the sound – then REALLY trying very hard from the seating position to resolve it.
Again stressing here, For Tim it was an issue, but for Renata it was not of any concern, as it was too low to be obstructive in anyway – I simply could not even hear it from say 50cm away from the tweeters – I hope due “Dulled” hearing from driving for 2 days then old age…
Still more troubling for me was the Background Hum (Tim was unaware of this) – which was due to dried out E-Caps in the X7, Background TV and conversation noise from the neighbor next door – and the constant “Din" of passing motorway traffic (again Tim had become accustomed to these “background” noises that he did not notice them anymore…
To everyone I would have liked to have visited, Sorry we could not stay longer in the UK but we had prior booked a Hotel for our Architect and builders (and there families) for a weekend meeting in the Czech mountains to start work on our new home – I could not rearrange the dates due to the numbers involved.
So, the “Hiss” while for some people and maybe in some systems can be an issue, it’s really a case by case issue.
So in systems that experience issues, going Balanced completely solves the issue (almost -20dB improvement to Dynamic Range), or adding inline RCA attenuators (say 10dB to 12dB) seem a workable value / solution. I recall adverts at the back of the Hi-Fi Mags – www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk “rothwell In-Line Attenuators” should solve the issue for “troublesome” systems.
The root cause of the “Hiss” is the use of JFET devices used in the Analog Class A output buffers (using the front end of the AD744’s) – these “degrade” the Single Ended Dynamic range from about -122dB to -98dB (-117dB from -135dB Balanced) – But the JEFTS sounded so much better then Transistors, that we chose to live with the degraded dynamic Range for the sack of the sonic improvements.
Anyone concerned about the level of Hiss can come and listen for themselves at the Bristol (and Munich) HiFi show, in most cases the Hiss level should only be audible with ears up against the tweeters (background levels of the Amplifiers)… or a second option is drive for 2 days – this desensitizes your HF hearing (apparently / hopefully)!!!
John
Norriemal,
I’m very sorry I didn’t not get a chance to drop by – I somehow missed your PM with your contact details – I’m not sure when it arrived, last week was crazy busy, once I was able to get to sit down in the evenings and read Emails etc I was totally gone…
Not sure if you can bring your unit to Bristol Hi-Fi show, or I can visit you during my trip to the UK from 20th of Feb.
Pls. don’t feel I left you out – I’m very sorry about your display issues – and hopefully we will have a chance towards the end of the month to solve them – and update your machine with the latest software.
Also, if anyone brings there CD/CDQ’s over to the Bristol show, we can also updated to the latest software versions – with all improvements (including display dimming and extra filters for CD).
C&H,
We have a software update to improve the readability of the CD’s – it basically trades-off shock resistance over readability – so better readability for worst “shock” resistance. As the units are designed for home use – Shock resistance is not that important. We have also improved the software so that once it encounters a “playability event” or shock; the unit will “eventually” recover and continue playing if it can.
We drive though Holland (very short section between Belgium and Germany) on our way to and from Czech Rep. So I can stop by and update your machine if it helps you out.
It does sound like your machine is not operating to at its best – So I will also swap out the Laser Mech.
Filters…. That’s why we added the options of selectable filters, small but worthwhile “system tuning” – problem is you end up saying I preferred this filter for this type of music / recordings, but then I want “Bass Heavy” and its OT DD etc etc
Remara,
Finland’s a bit off the beaten track for me to drop by, but once we have the software released (with readability updates – CD servo software Revision 85 upwards) – Audiolab main service centers can perform the updates.
Muz640,
Thanks for the chuckle, somehow unfortunately my Wife Renata does not share the same opinion of my “skill” set…
Dane – Rice cookers are not on my list of items I repair – If my wife found out I would have endless requests for “help” best stay fixing the “easier” items like Amps and CD players…
TimR,
Thank you and your family for making time for us to pop around “uninvited” – I’m sorry for the short notice, but I had no idea when and how I could make time to visit the UK, I was in a meeting in Germany during the weekend, and decided on the spur of the moment it would be easier to drive directly from Germany then return to Czech Rep. and fly - then try and rent a car in the UK etc – I also (don’t ask why) only have an Automatic driving license – makes for fun trying to rent a car in the UK – “What ONLY Auto driving license - can you not drive?” etc
I happy the background hum has gone, and the attenuated leads (-12dB) have fixed your “hiss issue” with unbalanced leads.
I was as interested as anyone concerning Tim's “Hiss” issues – so I kind of invited myself over to have a listen for myself.
Turns out that driving 2900km in the preceding 48 hours tends to “dull” your HF hearing with the constant background road noise.
I could only hear the “hiss” with my Ear right up against Tim’s tweeters – but Tim demonstrated that he can hear it from his seating position – I asked Renata listen – she could only identify the Hiss once she was made aware of it by listing to against the tweeters – “Identify” the sound – then REALLY trying very hard from the seating position to resolve it.
Again stressing here, For Tim it was an issue, but for Renata it was not of any concern, as it was too low to be obstructive in anyway – I simply could not even hear it from say 50cm away from the tweeters – I hope due “Dulled” hearing from driving for 2 days then old age…
Still more troubling for me was the Background Hum (Tim was unaware of this) – which was due to dried out E-Caps in the X7, Background TV and conversation noise from the neighbor next door – and the constant “Din" of passing motorway traffic (again Tim had become accustomed to these “background” noises that he did not notice them anymore…
To everyone I would have liked to have visited, Sorry we could not stay longer in the UK but we had prior booked a Hotel for our Architect and builders (and there families) for a weekend meeting in the Czech mountains to start work on our new home – I could not rearrange the dates due to the numbers involved.
So, the “Hiss” while for some people and maybe in some systems can be an issue, it’s really a case by case issue.
So in systems that experience issues, going Balanced completely solves the issue (almost -20dB improvement to Dynamic Range), or adding inline RCA attenuators (say 10dB to 12dB) seem a workable value / solution. I recall adverts at the back of the Hi-Fi Mags – www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk “rothwell In-Line Attenuators” should solve the issue for “troublesome” systems.
The root cause of the “Hiss” is the use of JFET devices used in the Analog Class A output buffers (using the front end of the AD744’s) – these “degrade” the Single Ended Dynamic range from about -122dB to -98dB (-117dB from -135dB Balanced) – But the JEFTS sounded so much better then Transistors, that we chose to live with the degraded dynamic Range for the sack of the sonic improvements.
Anyone concerned about the level of Hiss can come and listen for themselves at the Bristol (and Munich) HiFi show, in most cases the Hiss level should only be audible with ears up against the tweeters (background levels of the Amplifiers)… or a second option is drive for 2 days – this desensitizes your HF hearing (apparently / hopefully)!!!
John
Hi Dawg, no I was a bit busy yesterday so didn't get round to it. I hope to find time today though. Frst thing I did yesterday was let it upgrade the firmware.... doh! I'll let you know how it goes anyhow.
Edit: Just finished the hack, and as expected no sound over USB same as you. I'm still getting sound over coax though. Will linvestigate...
Thanks John, I've just ordered a pair.
I managed to get the mods working today, no chance to listen though but I did have to revert back to 7.5.1 on the touch to get them to stick, get the firmware here http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/7.5.2/ get the file named "jive_7.5.1_r9009.bin" I dont know why 7.5.1 is in the 7.5.2 directory but just stick it on the root of an sd card and you can downgrade the touch via the menue, dont forget to do a factory reset first to get rid of the tools. Oh and you may need to rename the file after you have downloaded it as windows saves it as .zip I am looking forward to hearing how the touch sounds through the CDQ via usb
Alan
Nice work Alan
I'm just trying to downgrade my firmware here, but after selecting software update, i'm not getting any option to download from the SD card. I've also tried a USB stick. How did you manage it ?
edit: Clutching at straws, I wonder if it's cos I'm running the latest server software. Maybe it's incompatible with the earlier SBT firmware? I've got server 7.5.3 / r31792
I'm just trying to downgrade my firmware here, but after selecting software update, i'm not getting any option to download from the SD card. I've also tried a USB stick. How did you manage it ?
edit: Clutching at straws, I wonder if it's cos I'm running the latest server software. Maybe it's incompatible with the earlier SBT firmware? I've got server 7.5.3 / r31792
TimR,That gave me a good chuckle too!
By the way, in the last hour I've just got my SB touch. Out of the box, the CDQ locks on over USB, but no sound. In fact the SB does not appear to play the song. However, I do get control over the SB using the CDQ handset (back, forward, play, pause etc), so all is not lost.
Early days. I will report back.
definitely interested in your saga with the Touch, since I have one, too.
Hoping for future feedback.
best regards
André
Just saw that you guys are already working on the details... thanks for doing the hard work.
Nice work Alan
I'm just trying to downgrade my firmware here, but after selecting software update, i'm not getting any option to download from the SD card. I've also tried a USB stick. How did you manage it ?
edit: Clutching at straws, I wonder if it's cos I'm running the latest server software. Maybe it's incompatible with the earlier SBT firmware? I've got server 7.5.3 / r31792
I did a bit of reading that said if you install server 7.== the device would automatically downgrade, this didnt work for me so yes i put 7.5.1 on my pc first, I dont know if this is why I was able to update though, my server is 30836 and the jive file firmware is 9009, i may have upgraded via the "SD Card" option in the menu rather than the "software update", sorry I have had a few beers now!
I was running 7.5.3 / r31792 aswell previous. I have just found another mod aswell that you definately need to try, http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html#more . Alan
Please tell me your findings when you are finished with the modification. I'm interested in both the way to do it and the end result (should be pretty good).
I had no problem at all installing all the mods OK on firmware 7.5.3 (including the extra ones you just mentioned), but i still got no USB audio into the CDQ. Thought it would be worth trying the downgrade. I've now got server 7.5.1 running on the PC, but still no joy in getting the SB to see the firmware file on the SD card, either by browsing to the card, or by selecting software update
edit: I've posted a request for help on this over on the slimdevices forum where John Swenson lives (he's the guy who came up with the Async USB hack).
edit: I've posted a request for help on this over on the slimdevices forum where John Swenson lives (he's the guy who came up with the Async USB hack).
I had no problem at all installing all the mods OK on firmware 7.5.3, but i still got no USB audio into the CDQ. Thought it would be worth trying the downgrade. I've now got server 7.5.1 running on the PC, but still no joy in getting the SB to see the firmware file on the SD card, either by browsing to the card, or by selecting software update
All the mods seemed to work for me but the analogue out and screen didnt go off untill i downgraded, OMG! I am really sorry, the beer has frazzled my brain this afternoon, the file you need is fab4_7.5.1_r9218.bin, from the same directory, I have read soooo much and different forums have said different files need to be on there. try that, again sorry for the time you wasted!
No worries Alan
I've now downgraded the firmware, and guess what? I noticed a typo in my asound.conf file, which i think was the real root cause, cos it's working now! Well, not quite, cos I'm getting a few ticks and pops in the music, so something's still not right. But progress has been made. Think I'll upgrade back again and see if the whole firmware thing was a red herring.
Edit: Yes it was!
So as it stands, I have the latest firmware, latest server software, and I have installed all the tools from here http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html
I have applied the async usb mod by John Swenson, but the result is that I get music over USB into the CDQ, but it contains pops and ticks. For anyone following this, I have posted some diagnostics which I hope JS will take a look at at some point here http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110&page=11 (user=indypants)
I've now downgraded the firmware, and guess what? I noticed a typo in my asound.conf file, which i think was the real root cause, cos it's working now! Well, not quite, cos I'm getting a few ticks and pops in the music, so something's still not right. But progress has been made. Think I'll upgrade back again and see if the whole firmware thing was a red herring.
Edit: Yes it was!
So as it stands, I have the latest firmware, latest server software, and I have installed all the tools from here http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html
I have applied the async usb mod by John Swenson, but the result is that I get music over USB into the CDQ, but it contains pops and ticks. For anyone following this, I have posted some diagnostics which I hope JS will take a look at at some point here http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82110&page=11 (user=indypants)
Gents, in the nicest possible way, you have persuaded me to stay with cd
That all sounds like a scary lot of work to me.
Bugt as you seem to not mind it, perhaps you could tell me;
Can I just buy a nas drive, lob on a sonos or similar and use say, itunes lossless and have access to all my songs into the dac in my cdq?
That doesn't sound hard??
Gents, in the nicest possible way, you have persuaded me to stay with cd
That all sounds like a scary lot of work to me.
Bugt as you seem to not mind it, perhaps you could tell me;
Can I just buy a nas drive, lob on a sonos or similar and use say, itunes lossless and have access to all my songs into the dac in my cdq?
That doesn't sound hard??
Of course that's also possible. The reason for this modding though, is to have a relatively cheap device with digital out over USB. If USB is used the 8200 is far less bothered by jitter which should greatly improve sound quality. It might very well be much better than CD. But I agree that this is not a very user friendly solution.
I searched for alternatives but I did not see a USB music streamer with a litle screen.
I see. I was hoping the sonos or something like it had a usb digi out.
So I'm less knowledgable than I thought
Still, I'll keep reading and perhaps steal your final solution
I suppose i could always use the laptop for now, but I dont want a computer anywhere near the cdq.
Dawg & TimR
thanks for keeping us posted. still interested if everything will work out alright.
BTW, has anyone compared USB input vs. coax or AES/EBU input on the CDQ? Would love to know if there is any audible difference. Theoretically it should be a fight between asynch USB vs. AES/EBU, but I'd like to know if anyone has had real-life experience comparing these on the CDQ.
best regards
André
thanks for keeping us posted. still interested if everything will work out alright.
BTW, has anyone compared USB input vs. coax or AES/EBU input on the CDQ? Would love to know if there is any audible difference. Theoretically it should be a fight between asynch USB vs. AES/EBU, but I'd like to know if anyone has had real-life experience comparing these on the CDQ.
best regards
André
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