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About to get screwed over - divorce and pensions advice, anyone?

If you've typically earned more than she has by 5-10%, negotiate on the 50-50 split in your favour and let her have her pension.
 
As a family lawyer of some experience I am happy to have a 1 to 1 chat with the OP.
For the general reader I would say that mediators have'nt got a clue. They do not give advice. They mediate. They do not advise. If you both reach an agreement in mediation they have done their job...never mind the outcome. You need a lawyer who knows his stuff and is'nt afraid to give you advice. Its up to you what you then do with the information.
A final salary pension is worth far more, even than the stated CETV as any actuary will tell you. A money purchase scheme is more likely to be truly worth the CETV.
Consider what the benefits are in each scheme and the cost of buying an annuity on the open market to provide those benefits, that will give you some idea of the relative values.
To achieve a fair split on the pension assetts you need to level the playing field. Just using the CETV figure on two different schemes is not enough.
 
Wouldn't it just be simpler to sell the house, divide up stuff you want to keep and then walk away with your own pensions.

Arguing over pensions is going to turn an amicable divorce into war of the roses.
 
appreciate that madmike, i am not planning on going to war but I would love to take a few minutes of your time to better understand CETV vs final salary. Ultimately we both want a fair clean break.
 
thebiglebowski said:
Wouldn't it just be simpler to sell the house, divide up stuff you want to keep and then walk away with your own pensions.

Arguing over pensions is going to turn an amicable divorce into war of the roses.
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She wants to keep the house and give me 50% equity.

Ultimately we both contributed over a long period of time and generated assets, pensions are no different from a house in my opinion. They are just another investment method.
 
If you are both in your 40s and married when you started work then its a "long" marriage of about 20 years at least. Pensions are definitely marital assetts and should be taken into consideration. You are thinking the right way, pensions are just another investment. People do get precious over "their" pensions. Thats why cases go to court, not because of the lawyers.
 
It seems to me that you don't share the same opinion of what 50/50 is.

If she is a Head Teacher in the UK with a final salary pension then that would be worth quite a lot.

I suggest that you seek legal advice. This does not necessarily mean some heavy court action but merely for you to get some clearer idea of what should be in or out of a settlement. Particularly since in your OP you talked of being "screwed over".
 
It seems to me that getting expert advice could net many thousands for a modest outlay.

Why do people assume that legal advice always leads to court and/or huge fees? US posters?

Get this wrong Lamboy and it could cost you big time financially. If you get proper advice you will then be able to make a more informed choice.
 
madmike said:
If you are both in your 40s and married when you started work then its a "long" marriage of about 20 years at least. Pensions are definitely marital assetts and should be taken into consideration. You are thinking the right way, pensions are just another investment. People do get precious over "their" pensions. Thats why cases go to court, not because of the lawyers.
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Having separated (though not divorced) from my wife two years ago, pensions never even came into it. Her pension was her pension and mine was mine.

I'm genuinely not sure why individuals' pensions are in question here. And, at least in pragmatic terms, if what is sought is something amicable, why would anyone want to mix up an arrangement based on an individuals' salary, years of service, etc, with the genuinely joint divisible assets? That seems to me to be bound to end in a nest of vipers.
 
I would simply produce a current projection of what my pension will provide at retirement age and ask my partner to produce the same. If they were acceptably similar then that would be fine. Otherwise there would be a division.

Anyone who thinks that pensions are not shared assets is mistaken.
 
In my experience of the legal profession you really need to do your home work.
I often ask people dealing with solicitors etc " How do you know they are any good" I am usually met with a blank expression. Its just like hiring a painter and decorator, check them out.
The few dealings we have had we did our home work and got a good end result and reasonable fees. As already mentioned it may well be worth just asking for advice.
 
I got divorced 15years ago.
My wife got 40% of the then value of my pension.
I was trying to keep things amicable, and be very reasonable as we had a child.
The resentment soured every aspect of our relationship over the past 15yrs.
Get good legal advice, get everything out in the open and then you can make a proper decision. You will either agree or disagree, but being quietly shafted is a poor decision.
 
Mediation. We used a mediator and it was very successful. We really liked the process - there were some tough points along the way (kids, house, finances, pensions) but the mediator kept us on track, helped us stick to the negotiations and made sure neither us got 'screwed'. Neither of us got everything we wanted - we both gave and took along the way, even on our perceived red lines.

We met together for an hour a week for about 5 or 6 weeks I seem to recall and was tremendous value for us. At the end we hired a family lawyer to deal with the formalities but she (the lawyer) kept trying to prise open what we'd already agreed and couldn't get her head around the negotiated approach.

My ex and I are still friends, of some sort!

I do hope this works out well for you all,

Ian
 
Tim Jones said:
I'm genuinely not sure why individuals' pensions are in question here. And, at least in pragmatic terms, if what is sought is something amicable, why would anyone want to mix up an arrangement based on an individuals' salary, years of service, etc, with the genuinely joint divisible assets? That seems to me to be bound to end in a nest of vipers.
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Work is very different for different people in different professions. Some people have jobs that are relatively secure and well pensioned but pay a little less than something 'comparable' but less secure and well pensioned in a different sector. When you put the two together there might well be an element of one partner contributing more to the partnership whilst in employment, and the other in retirement.

So it is only fair that pension assets are considered at the time of a split, and AFIAK that's what the law recognises.
 
My BIL was in the same position, people like 5050 when it suits them, sorry for the cynicism, but it a fact of life.

It started amicably and agreements were made, until his ex realised (or the solicitor) the value of a coppers pension. Pensions are included in any agreed settlement, so she had a future claim on the value of it.

Martin

PS good luck
 
Whatever you do it is expensive, ultimately there are no winners. It will take you ten years to recover if you ever do. The hardest and most important thing to do is let go and move on.
 
That Head Teacher pension will be worth a lottery win in terms of matrimonial assets. No wonder she wants to ring fence it. No different to you having the thick end of a million (maybe more) in investments and saying you want to keep them to yourself. I wonder what her reaction would be!

Absolutely seek professional advice to arm you with the facts but FFS don't get into 2 sets of lawyers batting back and forth at each other.
 
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