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About to get screwed over - divorce and pensions advice, anyone?

I have worked closely with the administrators of Teacher’s Pensions (TP) and can confirm that it is certainly one of the better Final Salary Schemes in existence. Its value compared to today’s money-purchase schemes is huge – as some people have said it’s 30 to 40 times greater (depending on the accrual rate and other benefits on offer) and the gap is growing as investment returns on pension funds continue to flat-line. Note that it isn’t just the pension itself that needs to be taken into account but the death in service/children’s benefits that may be on offer as well. The TP will also have guaranteed increases in payment which again raises its value. All of these benefits are things you pay through the nose for to secure in a money-purchase scheme. The best thing to do would be to ask the TP administrators for a transfer value – I guarantee that if your wife has been a contributor for a long time the sum will be pretty eye-watering.

That’s the financial aspect. My advice would be to explore this and then decide whether or not your divorce is as 50-50 as you are led to believe (probably not) but to try and keep things as amicable as possible.
 
OP - I have just spent the morning working out the value of a loss of pension claim for someone about your age and on a good pension scheme - it came out as several hundred thousand pounds. A headteacher's pension is valuable and for most people would be by far their biggest asset after the house.

Get some advice - you do not have to tell your wife that you have done so (indeed I would suggest you do not), but once you have, it will put you in a position to assess whether or not the 50/50 proposed is actually anywhere near being that. I suspect you will be surprised as to just how far the pension skews the balance.

To agree, mediate or litigate to a conclusion without even knowing what you are arguing or agreeing about is IMO idiotic. I don't wish to be rude about some of the comments above, but will be blunt because you need to appreciate the position before making a big financial mistake. Saving the limited cost of advice on this point alone is "penny wise, pound foolish".

Not seeking advice on the pension before considering your position is no different to (for example) not bothering to find out what the value of your house is. I can't believe for a second anyone would suggest that would be a sensible position from which to negotiate - the pension is no different.
 
After reading the post, I see that. Number of responders feel that solicitors wil automatically screw you. Tell me wats the difference of being screwed by a solicitor or screwing your self.

Believe me there is no scutching thing as an amicable divorce someone always looses make sure - as far as far as you can - it's not you. Get legal advice.
 
I've done a couple of diy divorces, if you can keep civil, put all the information on the table and agree on a settlement you may save a fortune.

I suppose you should both end up feeling you've paid a bit too much in reality.

I have friends in a similar position who have paid £50k plus in legal fees, my costs were c£40 each time.

Your situation may vary; I won't be getting married again and I don't think my daughter is too positive about it either.
 
Excellent advice from PFM. I have been a long term lurker and very rare poster, heck I come from the original hifichoice forum of many a year ago and I am still impressed at the community that audiophiles have created.

Thanks guys (and gals).
 
It reminds me of my mate..

He and his long term girlfriend had three houses, she decided she wanted to leave, no other reason than she wanted out. She kept leaving and returning hoping she could make it work, he did the same. He said she could have everything he still loved and cared for her that much, she said she didn't deserve anything and he could keep the lot - things kind of dragged on in the hope they might feel that special way again. She stopped talking to him, and then sent him a nasty solicitors letter saying she wanted to keep the one house in her name and share the two in his (eh?? he thinks!) and sends her one saying piss off. She got a barrister, he got a barrister, it dragged on for four years, all this time the three empty properties falling into disrepair and racking up big debts, the two barristers got £50k each and they divided what was left 50/50.

Cliff Richard doesn't have a clue, it's not so funny how they don't talk anymore!
 
You should at the very least get a comparison of the value of your pension vs your soon to be ex-wife's pension. Then you have an idea if the split is really equitable and negotiate accordingly.

Alternately, if you are comfortable with the fact that her pension is potentially worth considerably more than yours then just leave things be. Divorce can get expensive quickly, even when you agree on most/all things.

Having also gone through an equitable divorce, the thing to keep in mind is that you are no longer a couple, but two individuals, and you need to make sure that you get a fair share of the combined assets.
 
davidsrsb said:
To buy an annuity equivalent to a publicly funded retire at 55 pension would require a staggering amount
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My short answer to all of these sorts of arguments is "get a job in the public sector if it bothers you that much." There are swings and roundabouts to public vs private sector employment.
I have paid into my pension for 25 years as has my Local Government employers according to my agreed terms and conditions.
 
I did as Andrew suggested above, took advice from a solicitor, but self represented in court.

Got a fantastic result. I was awarded custody of all the debts, she got the house and all the assets. They tried to hit me for costs as well, but the beak, bless him, took pity, so she had to pay the £20k legal fees that she had incurred. My legal advice cost me a prepayment of £1000 down. Some 2 years later I received a cheque for 54 pence from the solicitor, which was my change when they closed the file.

I think David Ellwood's advice is probably the soundest. If it is amicable, do everything you can to keep the legal profession out of it, because if you let them in it will become extremely unamicable. Very quickly.
 
I'm with Tim on this-her pension is hers, yours is yours. However If an ex of mine had her own pension and still went after mine 'amicable' would go out of the window very quickly. My reasoning being she'd be taking money away from my future life/old age without her.
Obviously that is a naive emotional response and some of you lot have shed loads of money to squabble about-so protect yourself, get a solicitor.
I had a mate who's missus got preggers by another bloke and she even went after his comic collection ffs. Don't get married-been there done that, never again.
 
eternumviti said:
I think David Ellwood's advice is probably the soundest. If it is amicable, do everything you can to keep the legal profession out of it, because if you let them in it will become extremely unamicable. Very quickly.
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I would agree. Maybe consult an independent pensions expert and get the current and prospective pension benefits and guarantees compared for you both. Unless you really see a substantial difference that you can't agree on, I'd keep m'learned friends well away.
 
From what the OP has already told us the difference in pension provision will be staggering.
 
As has been mentioned both should get a 'cash equivalent transfer value' of their pensions and seek advice from a financial adviser who is experienced in this subject. The pension might be shared or offset against other assets.

Try not to go to war as divorce leaves enough scars as it is. However if the wife refuses to provide this information you will know why. Pensions can be the biggest asset that some people have.

Cheers,

DV
 
Not knowing your circumstances, I'd wager that pension is the single most valuable joint marital asset. Absolutely pay for proper advice to understand the law and the facts around your marital estate. Then sit down and reach agreement based on those facts (rather than opinions), without the lawyers if possible.

The problem with lawyers is they are measured on fee income, not on efficiency of achieving a satisfactory resolution. Therefore mountains are made out of molehills, emotions and resentment stirred up for as long as the clock will tick. Throw in a couple of barristers and I've seen people blow £100k+ over what boiled down to one or two key points (usually misunderstandings, hence establish all the facts before negotiating). Of course there are good guys out there who will ignore the noise and cut to the chase, but that is not generally the modus operandi. Good luck.
 
So, if I took a job that paid more, pissed my money away and provisioned no pension, but my Mrs took less pay and a better pension then I'm due half of it...

What a remarkable set of circumstances.
 
sq225917 said:
So, if I took a job that paid more, pissed my money away and provisioned no pension, but my Mrs took less pay and a better pension then I'm due half of it...

What a remarkable set of circumstances.
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This is thread crapping. We were discussing the OPs situation and not every possible alternative. If you want to discuss a specific case then you should start a thread on it.

Cheers,

DV
 
It seems to me very much like others were weighing in with opinion and experience. I added mine, one of surprise. Should you not care for it, you have a multiplicity of options.
 
Is that what you did or what you suggest the OP should do? Your comment seemed to be hypothetical.
 
His comment was I imagine a flippant observation on the legal situation re pensions and joint assets, backed by a sense of disbelief, which is pretty much how I feel reading all this. I hope the OP sorts everything out and it all remains amicable.
 
A friend divorced about 15 years ago, they sorted it out themselves and it cost £37 each. Another couple we know divorced about four years ago and involved solicitors. They agreed who got what so there was not much work; it cost about £4000 each. There will probably be diy books telling how to do the divorce.
 
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