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MDAC First Listen (part 00111001)

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Stepan,

Welcome to PFM and thank you for your kind words for the MDAC desing.

In short, the MDAC2 design is still in progress and the first design the MDAC2 DD2A is moving higher-end in the price range - simply because the cost of the components used.

There will be more affordable versions of the MDAC2 design to follow, and while there are going to be more affordable, they will not necessarily be worst sounding - just different.

Dear John,
Thank you for your detailed reply, I am so excited to meet the creator of such wonderful Hi-Fi equipment. I am very happy to see you paid attention to my profession- I hope one day you can hear me play life in Czech Republic. I have recently been performing Dvorak Violin Concerto- what a beautiful piece it is, one of my absolute favourites!

To be honest as a Violin player, the MDAC2 DD2A or discrete DAC version would be your best choice.

However my recommendation to you would be to spend you money on upgrading your speakers to ESL's (Electrostatic loudspeakers) - the "cheaper" ESLs from Martin Logan are very good:-

https://www.martinlogan.com/learn/electrostatic-speakers.php

Martin Logans cheapest ESL is VERY VERY good:-

https://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/em-esl.php

It is such a coincidence, I was literally looking at the same Martin Logan ESL speakers and was seriously considering it, however I have two very untamed cats who could easily destroy these speakers if I accidentally left the door open to my study room. Do you know if the diaphragm/front element of Martin Logans is quite durable?
So finally I have decided to settle for a pair of very fine Danish speakers from a company called Buchardt Audio: https://www.buchardt-audio.com
If you don't mind me comparing, to me this company seems to have similar values as to yours- great enthusiasm, passion for music and strive for perfectionism. They have recently been at the AVS 2017 Show here in Warsaw and their new speakers have passive radiators at the back- I have never seen a design like that in my life- they sound absolutely amazing! https://www.buchardt-audio.com/products/s400-black-pair-pre-order-discount

Then you amplifier will need to be upgraded - a cheap second hand Quad 909 is hard to beat for the value and performance.

Thank you very much for your professional advice on the QUAD amplifier- I have already started looking at the 909 second hand offers..;)
I have also been looking at their Artera Series before finally settling for my current system: M-CDT, M-DAC and M-PWR.
My biggest problem now is that I have a turntable and I cannot integrate it with my current system, as there is no way of using M-DAC as a preamplifier, since there are no analog inputs.
In the case of me purchasing the QUAD 909 amp would you recommend to do it together with the QUAD 99 preamp? Or perhaps you can recommend any new/currently available separates, including a matching CD player/transport to go with it?

Once you have recovered from the expense of buying the ESL's then we all hope that the MDAC2 design should be generally available.
The Streamer board is only compatible with the upgraded MDAC2 boards and also a engineering development DAC board the DevDAC.
This forum is really the best place to keep track of whats happening - I don't have a marketing team or even the desire to market the designs - they are for fun and the love of Music rather then any serious finical enrichment - quite the opposite in fact! :)

Thank you so much once again for your honesty and for all the information you have provided me with.

Out of interested, on your MDAC have your tired the different digital filters? - I'd be very interested in your "Trained" musicians ear, which works best for you?
I tend to use Slow Rolloff filter on majority of all the music I listen to- to me it is the clearest sounding one especially when listening to records that were made "directly to disc". I have a collection of Grigory Sokolov recordings for Naïve Records- these are AD recordings, so no mixing has been done, just a pair of microphones- the Slow Rolloff provides the cleanest sound on my system and I can really hear well artist's performing dynamics and the acoustics of the room- it gives a real life experience feeling.
Here's the CD link: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B005OZDXR8/?tag=pinkfishmed08-21
I also like Minimum Phase- it tends to bring the vocals a little forward- I find it sounds good for "hard to hear the voice" rock music.
And I liked the Optimal Transient XD and DD- in fact DD has a little more controlled bass on my system, my room is quite boomy, so DD works really well on pop music. Both filters make everything sound very rich, almost as if I have surround sound speakers.
Overall I still tend to leave my M-DAC at Slow Rolloff on all types of music, as I tend to analyse a lot of what I listen to and I think this filter gives me quite a clear/honest picture.

I visited Poland a few months ago to collect the Surface Mount Machine and was very surprised how much more developed & renovated it is compared to the Czech Rep... if only Poland had better Highway networks!

Lol, this is so true- the drivers and the roads in Poland are the worst?! I actually drove to Czech Republic from Warsaw and the road outside Warsaw at some point became a nightmare. However they are building some new highways, right now the road from Warsaw to Berlin is one of the best I've seen here. But local drivers- that's a whole new story..
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Message from the ministreamer Chassis vendor:-

"As it is the busiest season of the year, all the custom enclosures are processed by the order of purchase time, some may be delayed for several days. Your understanding is much appreciated. We've double checked the schedule just now, and we promise your order will be ready and ship out within next week."

I'll be happy once I see pictures confirming the vendor has no issue with the fine details on the Front and rear panel silkscreen.
 
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Stepan,

Welcome to PFM and thank you for your kind words for the MDAC desing.

In short, the MDAC2 design is still in progress and the first design the MDAC2 DD2A is moving higher-end in the price range - simply because the cost of the components used.

There will be more affordable versions of the MDAC2 design to follow, and while there are going to be more affordable, they will not necessarily be worst sounding - just different.

To be honest as a Violin player, the MDAC2 DD2A or discrete DAC version would be your best choice.

However my recommendation to you would be to spend you money on upgrading your speakers to ESL's (Electrostatic loudspeakers) - the "cheaper" ESLs from Martin Logan are very good:-

https://www.martinlogan.com/learn/electrostatic-speakers.php

Martin Logans cheapest ESL is VERY VERY good:-

https://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/em-esl.php

Then you amplifier will need to be upgraded - a cheap second hand Quad 909 is hard to beat for the value and performance.

Once you have recovered from the expense of buying the ESL's then we all hope that the MDAC2 design should be generally available.

The Streamer board is only compatible with the upgraded MDAC2 boards and also a engineering development DAC board the DevDAC.



This forum is really the best place to keep track of whats happening - I don't have a marketing team or even the desire to market the designs - they are for fun and the love of Music rather then any serious finical enrichment - quite the opposite in fact! :)



Trust me, getting the ESL's will make the biggest difference - once you have these you can then consider if you need to upgrade your MDAC :)

Out of interested, on your MDAC have your tired the different digital filters? - I'd be very interested in your "Trained" musicians ear, which works best for you?

I visited Poland a few months ago to collect the Surface Mount Machine and was very surprised how much more developed & renovated it is compared to the Czech Rep... if only Poland had better Highway networks!

To really get full benefit from John's designs you certainly need a pair of phase coherent speakers.

ESLs are but one option.

Other options include anything from Focal or Tannoy Dual Concentric.
 
Since John first expressed a preference for the Optimal Transient filter, I'd left my MDAC switched to that after a couple of days, without a second thought. But having read Stepan's comments it struck me (belatedly) that ESLs in a far better room might be more sensitive to filter settings, and that has proved to be the case even to my untrained ear. It's convenient to have a standard 'jack of all trades' setting, but concert recordings in particular benefit from some experimentation.
Fwiw, this may just be stating the obvious but my other listening room is such a dead loss that even with Focals the various filters appeared to have very little effect.
 

Great news John and thanks for the pictures!

I realise all the correct assembly machinery is not working/delivered yet; not sure if it’s too fiddly but are you able to assemble just one of each design manually to check the boards are good? Not intending to task you with frustrating microscopic work if that is the way, but I (if I were you) would be dying to test out my new pride and joy designs :cool:

Best regards

Paul
 
Great news John and thanks for the pictures!

I realise all the correct assembly machinery is not working/delivered yet; not sure if it’s too fiddly but are you able to assemble just one of each design manually to check the boards are good? Not intending to task you with frustrating microscopic work if that is the way, but I (if I were you) would be dying to test out my new pride and joy designs :cool:

Paul,

All the designs have been tested on the first revision boards - unless we have been unlucky enough to introduced other errors as we updated the first revision - touching we we hope these boards are good (not requiring rework etc).

The earlier prototype Ministreamer PCB:-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/viw0lbimzso0wot/MiniStreamer A01 PCB.JPG?dl=0

We updated the A01 Ministreamer with a new MCU and front panel "detox style" toggle switches - but the core of the design remains the same (+small corrections).
 
Since John first expressed a preference for the Optimal Transient filter, I'd left my MDAC switched to that after a couple of days, without a second thought. But having read Stepan's comments it struck me (belatedly) that ESLs in a far better room might be more sensitive to filter settings, and that has proved to be the case even to my untrained ear. It's convenient to have a standard 'jack of all trades' setting, but concert recordings in particular benefit from some experimentation.
Fwiw, this may just be stating the obvious but my other listening room is such a dead loss that even with Focals the various filters appeared to have very little effect.

Thats whats great about forums - it allows others to share there experiences.
 
“LessLoss continues to strive to be one of the very best cost/performance values around.”
What! It’s $91K :eek: But it scores high on the bling o’meter

Jarek and I have just spent the last hour feeling pretty sick about this unit - there is noway a streamer (not to mention one using the cheapest LCD display) can justify the cost - even if we wanted too, we could not find away to add 91K worth of engineering to a design like this. IMO it just makes a mockery of the industry and is plan sad.
 
John could you send me what you want to see on the dac specific interface panel. (A drawing could work)
Moreover do you have corresponding I2C device commands and I2C DEVDAC link Id ?
 
If anyone fancy my reserved and fully paid up VFET spot, let me know. I will put an advert up in a few days in the classifieds section. John W will most likely know how to proceed without too much loss of funds on his or my part.
Kind regards,
Peter
 
John could you send me what you want to see on the dac specific interface panel. (A drawing could work)
Moreover do you have corresponding I2C device commands and I2C DEVDAC link Id ?

The communications protocol between the DevDAC and CM3 (Linux hardware) is via a CDC virtual communications port over USB - apparently PHP (with Direct IO extension) can access a CDC port directly.

http://www.brainboxes.com/faq/items/how-do-i-control-a-serial-port-using-php

The basic API commands:-

Volume control
Digital filter
Inputs (Steamer, USB, SPDIF & Coax)
Distortion compensation

From DevDAC board to CM3

Lock indication (SPDIF mode)
Sample rate
File format (DSD / PCM / HDCD)

A link to out current APi - work in progress:-

https://github.com/lakewestaudio/devdac
 
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Jarek and I have just spent the last hour feeling pretty sick about this unit - there is noway a streamer (not to mention one using the cheapest LCD display) can justify the cost - even if we wanted too, we could not find away to add 91K worth of engineering to a design like this. IMO it just makes a mockery of the industry and is plan sad.
I think it tells you something about this outfit "LessLoss", and their opinion of their target customers, that they call their RCA interconnects "Plug and Play"...
 
We will release the DevDac Command APi once we have modified our existing universal APi.

The communications protocol between the DevDAC and CM3 (Linux hardware) is via a CDC virtual communications port over USB - apparently PHP (with Direct IO extension) can access a CDC port directly.

http://www.brainboxes.com/faq/items/how-do-i-control-a-serial-port-using-php

The basic API commands:-

Volume control
Digital filter
Inputs (Steamer, USB, SPDIF & Coax)
Distortion compensation

From DevDAC board to CM3

Lock indication (SPDIF mode)
Sample rate
File format (DSD / PCM / HDCD)

A link to out current APi - work in progress (its for a 3rd party design) but will be edited for the DevDAC platform

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9n7hnh9xjxrpbed/APi README.md?dl=0
This is all we need and we are not limited to only using PHP.
There is also support for writing to the serial port in Node.js which I will look at for a Roon UI on the touch screen.
https://www.npmjs.com/package/serialport
 
If the goal is to encourage contributions from the 'community' then Node.js is a far better choice, IMO.
 
If the goal is to encourage contributions from the 'community' then Node.js is a far better choice, IMO.

Before we start deciding which programming language or environment to use we really need to get more spec on what it is we need to do. Both PHP and Node.js are really designed for web applications not really as device configuration languages/environment. They also might have certain characteristic which might make them unsuitable for the job. Do we really want to use a truck/luarry to go shopping for few eggs?

Lets examine more what libraries we have to use, their API interface, error handling, execution dependencies and time constrains, buffering, parameters and return values format and and God knows what else before we decide what language would give us best option.

For the web interface, sure we can use PHP or Node.js, but for communication between Streamer and DAC we may, and I say may, need something a bit leaner and granular.

Anyhow, all this is academic until we get the hardware which at the moment we do not have a date for yet.

JohnW, how is it looking for that?
 
Before we start deciding which programming language or environment to use we really need to get more spec on what it is we need to do. Both PHP and Node.js are really designed for web applications not really as device configuration languages/environment. They also might have certain characteristic which might make them unsuitable for the job. Do we really want to use a truck/luarry to go shopping for few eggs?

Lets examine more what libraries we have to use, their API interface, error handling, execution dependencies and time constrains, buffering, parameters and return values format and and God knows what else before we decide what language would give us best option.

For the web interface, sure we can use PHP or Node.js, but for communication between Streamer and DAC we may, and I say may, need something a bit leaner and granular.

Anyhow, all this is academic until we get the hardware which at the moment we do not have a date for yet.

JohnW, how is it looking for that?
I know that its better to choose the aproriate technologies before starting to develop but if we dont want to build a full distro yet it's better to try to integrate into an existing one.
As Moode is php/boostrap/jquery based and include some i2c libs. The first aim is then to provide with a moode interface screen to handle DevDac configuration.
Making interface -> devdac communication then seems no too difficult with that software combination using php libs. Doing the opposite has yet to be tested (I'm not found of putting interface timers)
Bests,
 
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