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MDAC First Listen (part 00111001)

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In fact looking at how moode works (mainly PHP webapp) it could be relatively easy to include a DEVDAC special page without setting up additional software. Moode code is well written and understandable by any php developper.
The main part is to create I2S commands to control dac features then calling those features from UI is quite easy too. Moode seems offers an I2S kernel support. I will investigate when devdac+streamer arrives during xmas holidays.

Setting up a git repo could be a good idea. I'm not convinced that Tim would be opposed to add those features as an aditional package if it doesnt request to modify the original distro config.

bests

Great News :)
 
It's all a little quiet here and the thread is dropping down the list, so I thought I'd dare to post.

Anyway, I was reading something that really interested me from another thread, posted by muzzer:
http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/picking-up-a-chord-mojo-in-a-couple-of-days.209500/

But the really interesting bit is when you google the DAC muzzer uses; a 'Chevron Audio Paradoc NDF16 DAC', while reading it's reviews I came across some interesting ideas that mirror some of the thinking behind the MDAC2_DDA design:

'Inside the DAC itself, conversion is achieved by EIGHT, yes that's 8 chips running in differential mode. This costs more and potentially creates more opportunities for inacuracies, but is the popular contemporary go to solution for improved timing with minimal filtering, in DACs and CD players at the most elevated price points. Local linear power supply regulators in the DAC further preserve supply integrity at all signal processing and amplifying stages. Any analogue audio circuit is nothing more than a modulated power supply; the electrons coming out are not bigger versions of the same ones that went in!

So 8 dac chips receive identical non-oversampled data (whether 44kHz or 48KHz sample rate at 16 bits resolution), with precisely controlled time differences between each chip. Thus, when the outputs of the dac chips are summed together, there's effectively a 384 kHz sample rate with 19 bit resolution. Inverted data is fed to another 8 dac chips, thus creating a noise and distortion rejecting differential arrangement with the bonus of an extra bit of resolution. Colin Yallop likens the arrangement to lots of small steps on a stairway compared with a few enormous steps. Even without a low pass digital filter, the amplifier is not struggling to reproduce a series of abrupt square-waves (exciting oscillation) as it would for a filterless DAC running at just 44kHz or 48kHz.'

...and the other bit I found interesting:

'The power supply feeds the DAC via a multicore umbilical cord. Hence the demands of any part of the DAC will have no effect on the supply to other parts of the circuit. It has long been argued that no well designed power supply should sag enough under load to affect the regulation of other parts of the circuit. Your old scribe's experiments, experience of other's experiments, and auditioning, confirm that this is probably the most important factor in preserving musical qualities like timing and rhythm in solid state amplifying stages. Your Old Scribe has long railed against privileging any design Parameters above accuracy in the time domain.'

full review is here:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/chevron_paradox_e.html
 
It's all a little quiet here and the thread is dropping down the list, so I thought I'd dare to post.

Anyway, I was reading something that really interested me from another thread, posted by muzzer:
http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/picking-up-a-chord-mojo-in-a-couple-of-days.209500/

But the really interesting bit is when you google the DAC muzzer uses; a 'Chevron Audio Paradoc NDF16 DAC', while reading it's reviews I came across some interesting ideas that mirror some of the thinking behind the MDAC2_DDA design:

'Inside the DAC itself, conversion is achieved by EIGHT, yes that's 8 chips running in differential mode. This costs more and potentially creates more opportunities for inacuracies, but is the popular contemporary go to solution for improved timing with minimal filtering, in DACs and CD players at the most elevated price points. Local linear power supply regulators in the DAC further preserve supply integrity at all signal processing and amplifying stages. Any analogue audio circuit is nothing more than a modulated power supply; the electrons coming out are not bigger versions of the same ones that went in!

So 8 dac chips receive identical non-oversampled data (whether 44kHz or 48KHz sample rate at 16 bits resolution), with precisely controlled time differences between each chip. Thus, when the outputs of the dac chips are summed together, there's effectively a 384 kHz sample rate with 19 bit resolution. Inverted data is fed to another 8 dac chips, thus creating a noise and distortion rejecting differential arrangement with the bonus of an extra bit of resolution. Colin Yallop likens the arrangement to lots of small steps on a stairway compared with a few enormous steps. Even without a low pass digital filter, the amplifier is not struggling to reproduce a series of abrupt square-waves (exciting oscillation) as it would for a filterless DAC running at just 44kHz or 48kHz.'

...and the other bit I found interesting:

'The power supply feeds the DAC via a multicore umbilical cord. Hence the demands of any part of the DAC will have no effect on the supply to other parts of the circuit. It has long been argued that no well designed power supply should sag enough under load to affect the regulation of other parts of the circuit. Your old scribe's experiments, experience of other's experiments, and auditioning, confirm that this is probably the most important factor in preserving musical qualities like timing and rhythm in solid state amplifying stages. Your Old Scribe has long railed against privileging any design Parameters above accuracy in the time domain.'

full review is here:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/chevron_paradox_e.html


Well, instead going to mess up the data in a non-scientific way, just for the sake of making the staircase less, wouldn't it be a lot better to simply make up samples to insert by one-self by whatever your poison:
  • Conventional oversampling
  • xx order polynomial
  • smoothing function
  • pattern prediction
 
[QUOTE="JohnW, post: 3248578, member: 14119”]

DEVDAC development PCB:-
  • PCM 768KHz 32 Bits with native DSD support to DSD512 (Via USB)
  • Streamer board, USB, Optical and Coax input
  • THD 0.0005% and 125dB Dynamic range Awtd Dynamic range
  • RCA Output (2VRMS)
  • True balanced XLR Output (4VRMS)
  • Triple 44.1KHz, 48KHz & "ASRC mode" Low phase noise Master clock sources
  • Selectable Digital filter support
  • ADC expansion port
  • DC Power input jack (12V 1A - Center Pin Positive) - Includes Streamer board
  • Calibrated distortion trim coefficients stored on EEPROM (Free on "Developers addition" boards)
  • Audio Clock-Locked USB, Ethernet, PSU & ARM CPU when used with MDAC2 Streamer PCB
  • Optional standalone operation with 2nd port USB upgrade & Front panel
  • Support for MQA subject to approval and Fee

  • 22 regulated PSU rails
[/QUOTE]

John,

could you please provide any more specific info regarding 'support for MQA subject to approval and Fee’? I would assume the same would apply for MDAC2 and Streamer?

Thanks
 
It's all a little quiet here and the thread is dropping down the list, so I thought I'd dare to post.

Anyway, I was reading something that really interested me from another thread, posted by muzzer:
http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/picking-up-a-chord-mojo-in-a-couple-of-days.209500/

But the really interesting bit is when you google the DAC muzzer uses;
So 8 dac chips receive identical non-oversampled data (whether 44kHz or 48KHz sample rate at 16 bits resolution), with precisely controlled time differences between each chip. Thus, when the outputs of the dac chips are summed together, there's effectively a 384 kHz sample rate with 19 bit resolution.
...and the other bit I found interesting:

'The power supply feeds the DAC via a multicore umbilical cord. Hence the demands of any part of the DAC will have no effect on the supply to other parts of the circuit. It has long been argued that no well designed power supply should sag enough under load to affect the regulation of other parts of the circuit. Your old scribe's experiments, experience of other's experiments, and auditioning, confirm that this is probably the most important factor in preserving musical qualities like timing and rhythm in solid state amplifying stages. Your Old Scribe has long railed against privileging any design Parameters above accuracy in the time domain.'

full review is here:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/chevron_paradox_e.html
Just to clarify: in order to preserve accuracy in the time domain you have to sacrifice accuracy in the time domain? Not sure but it might be doing the same thing as an OT filter ie just repeat the sample values 8 times. It's not clear whether the 8 dacs produce identical outputs or whether they are dithered.
 
The Streamer to DevDAC interconnection PCB and DevDAC SPDIF boards arrived today:-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/unmc38b6jdbhndw/IMG_3528.JPG?dl=0

Not such good news on the solder paste printer we paid for on the 11th Nov:-

"Actual delivery time is 4-6 weeks (because of end of year) after payment of proforma invoice, which we sent you 07.11.2017."

This despite on the 7th Nov promising 2 - 4 weeks.... (we paid on the 11th) this is so typical of dealing with vendors here in the Czech Rep!

If I have to, I can use the POS Chinese Solder paste printer - but I paid almost Euro 10K for the new printer so that we would have it in time for the first set of boards :(

The Chinese Solder paste printer is so poor that there is so much rework required and it takes about 5 attempts for each board to get a "decent" layer of solder... its a complete pain.

I want the boards to be of the very highest build quality - after any rework it takes of lot of time under the microscope to touch up the boards so they look perfect.

DHL have notified us that the Ministreamer boards are in transit from China - still not word on the MiniStreamer chassis (no pictures yet).
 
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I'm not waiting for the Devdac, but I would guess a couple of weeks delay is no big issue....top quality is what we really want.
 
Dear John,

I am new to this forum and to the world of Hi-Fi.
I would like to say thank you for all your hard work at the Audiolab! I purchased my very first hi-fi equipment this year and it consists of LAB series products- M-CDT, M-DAC and M-PWR. I am very happy with this little system and I could not imagine it can sound so beautiful- crystal clean and energetic- almost live like!
I am very sad to learn that you have left Audiolab some years ago- I only just learned about it here, by reading some of the threads.
But I am extremely happy to learn that you have your own company now and that you continue producing new amazing hi-fi equipment that is of highest quality!
Here comes my question, could you please (in simple words) explain to me if it is possible to upgrade my M-DAC to some sort of new level? Is that what you call the M-DAC2?
Also I keep reading about the MDAC2 streamer PSB- is that some sort of additional device? Or is it something that could be installed into my original M-DAC at the price of 250GBP, as mentioned on your company's webpage?
Please excuse me if I am asking you some silly question, however it is the only form of contact I found possible to learn more about new Lakewest's products.
If you have an email address of your company's representative, who could explain to me anything regarding M-DAC upgrades, or the M-DAC2, or the streamer, or the DEVDAC (what is it?), I would be most grateful to you for any information.

One last request, if there is a way to upgrade my M-DAC, please advise me on how that could be done, as I would be most happy to send it to you to the Czech Republic, as I myself live with my wife in Poland right now, so we're practically neighbours!

Thank you once again for all your hard work, and I wish you much success with your future projects!
Especially the FDAC- I am seriously ready to buy it when it's available for sale for my new house and a bigger system.:)
 
I'm not waiting for the Devdac, but I would guess a couple of weeks delay is no big issue....top quality is what we really want.

No its a big mess - seems that the Czech distributor misplaced our order - I've just wired him the payment confirmation from the bank as proof of payment - waiting to see what he can do with delivery times :(

I fear that the manufacturer in Germany cannot do anything this side of Christmas and the 4 - 6 weeks delivery timeframe will hold :(

The trouble we now face is that we ordered "frame less" solder stencils in anticipation of installing them in the new solder paste printer - the Chinese printer requires the stencils to be framed:-

Frameless stencils for the new printer:-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/err0b2t6et7yxe8/Frameless Stencil.jpg?dl=0

Framed type stencils for the POS Chinese printer:-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5y444is8z79b122/Framed Stencil.JPG?dl=0

So the trouble is how to use the frameless stencils with our current printer :(
 
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Blimey, I’m beginning to wonder whether I’ll be getting my mdac2 before Boxing day
 
I would like to say thank you for all your hard work at the Audiolab! I purchased my very first hi-fi equipment this year and it consists of LAB series products- M-CDT, M-DAC and M-PWR. I am very happy with this little system and I could not imagine it can sound so beautiful- crystal clean and energetic- almost live like!

I am very sad to learn that you have left Audiolab some years ago- I only just learned about it here, by reading some of the threads.
But I am extremely happy to learn that you have your own company now and that you continue producing new amazing hi-fi equipment that is of highest quality!
Here comes my question, could you please (in simple words) explain to me if it is possible to upgrade my M-DAC to some sort of new level? Is that what you call the M-DAC2?
Also I keep reading about the MDAC2 streamer PCB- is that some sort of additional device? Or is it something that could be installed into my original M-DAC at the price of 250GBP, as mentioned on your company's webpage?

Stepan,

Welcome to PFM and thank you for your kind words for the MDAC desing.

In short, the MDAC2 design is still in progress and the first design the MDAC2 DD2A is moving higher-end in the price range - simply because the cost of the components used.

There will be more affordable versions of the MDAC2 design to follow, and while there are going to be more affordable, they will not necessarily be worst sounding - just different.

To be honest as a Violin player, the MDAC2 DD2A or discrete DAC version would be your best choice.

However my recommendation to you would be to spend you money on upgrading your speakers to ESL's (Electrostatic loudspeakers) - the "cheaper" ESLs from Martin Logan are very good:-

https://www.martinlogan.com/learn/electrostatic-speakers.php

Martin Logans cheapest ESL is VERY VERY good:-

https://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/em-esl.php

Then you amplifier will need to be upgraded - a cheap second hand Quad 909 is hard to beat for the value and performance.

Once you have recovered from the expense of buying the ESL's then we all hope that the MDAC2 design should be generally available.

The Streamer board is only compatible with the upgraded MDAC2 boards and also a engineering development DAC board the DevDAC.

Please excuse me if I am asking you some silly question, however it is the only form of contact I found possible to learn more about new Lakewest's products.
If you have an email address of your company's representative, who could explain to me anything regarding M-DAC upgrades, or the M-DAC2, or the streamer, or the DEVDAC (what is it?), I would be most grateful to you for any information.

This forum is really the best place to keep track of whats happening - I don't have a marketing team or even the desire to market the designs - they are for fun and the love of Music rather then any serious finical enrichment - quite the opposite in fact! :)

One last request, if there is a way to upgrade my M-DAC, please advise me on how that could be done, as I would be most happy to send it to you to the Czech Republic, as I myself live with my wife in Poland right now, so we're practically neighbors!

Thank you once again for all your hard work, and I wish you much success with your future projects!
Especially the FDAC- I am seriously ready to buy it when it's available for sale for my new house and a bigger system.:)

Trust me, getting the ESL's will make the biggest difference - once you have these you can then consider if you need to upgrade your MDAC :)

Out of interested, on your MDAC have your tired the different digital filters? - I'd be very interested in your "Trained" musicians ear, which works best for you?

I visited Poland a few months ago to collect the Surface Mount Machine and was very surprised how much more developed & renovated it is compared to the Czech Rep... if only Poland had better Highway networks!
 
John, Sorry to hear about the situation with the solder paste printer. That distributor seems to be a rather silly person, I hope he's at least apologized properly. It seems to have stopped you in your tracks, but I'm sure other parts of the project would benefit during this waiting time. Maybe getting your HiFi set up really well, ready for the listening tests...or even reading the manual for the printer...:)

Time for a Jack Daniels and coke?...maybe several...:)

PS: Good to have you join us Stepan.
 
John, Sorry to hear about the situation with the solder paste printer. That distributor seems to be a rather silly person, I hope he's at least apologized properly. It seems to have stopped you in your tracks, but I'm sure other parts of the project would benefit during this waiting time. Maybe getting your HiFi set up really well, ready for the listening tests...or even reading the manual for the printer...:)

Thank you for the morel support :)

I'll work around it somehow - we cannot wait for 4-6 weeks :( I've got so much going on in my head I've not had the time to think about it too much... I'm kinda still hoping that the distributor will comeback tomorrow with a solution (as It only came to light late this evening) - I'd be happy with an ex-demo machine, I really don't care if its new or not, just that it works and with quick delivery! It was meant to be arriving sometime now - I've held back making the boards thinking it be arriving this week... :( I only got worried recently since I'd heard nothing back from the distributor...
 
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