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YBA Design DAC WD202 and general dac advice?

effinity

effinity

pfm Member
Hi,

Anyone know the YBA Design DAC WD202?

It's probably a 10yr design now but seems to have many good features and connections. There's a NOS one on eBay for around £500 plus shipping.

As a dac newbie I'm wondering if this is good value or if there's better for similar money or less?

Cheers, Steve
 
I'm going to have to moan first. Sorry.
Karik, Numerik, Kairn, Klout (Aktiv), Katan(active), Sizmik

As usual with Linn, Karik-Numerik-Kairn power supplies 'blew' (Y's etc) and I've only managed to get the Karik up and running again.

Linn obviously weren't interested, in fact the list of 'unrepairable' kit now runs into stuff dealers still set for £4k and above.

After moans, information and searches, many 'dealers' here and abroad are of the same opinion - NEVER BUY LINN.

It was a big mistake (not for sound, just my future system survival).

Anyway, harking back to my old system - Nuance preamp (FAMCO - now YBA), I bought a YBA Audio Refinement PRE 5 and a Micromega MyDac as standing - sad moments not happy. And, to put it bluntly, no much better than the Karik into the power amp with pots. Hmm.

Anyway, did my research and I've bought a WD 202 (second hand) which arrived today.

Linn dealers were right - technology has moved on.

Gobsmacked is an understatement.

Unbelievable imaging, 3D placement of instruments, gone is the sort of flat but wide sound stage. It's wider, deeper and I'm hearing stuff I have NEVER heard before. Period!

And, being a JFET opamp based device it is, as YBA (and reviews) say, it's valve...

It's delivering the musical joy of what Linn were known for and piled it on in more and more lumps.

I use Kenny G Breathless as my test disc. It really shows up flaws in systems and imaging. It is a sax, what more could do that.

Am I going to take LInn's advice and spend another 15 to 20 k on a new DAC and preamp. Not a bloody chance.

So, I will keep my front end until it dies and then look for a transport.

Intriguingly it will take music from my MAC computers via old hat Apple Airplay through Airport Express and will take apple streams via USB (It's built in). Doesn't make the Squeezebox redundant it just adds to the choices and, it's got a HP out.

Did I say if you order upgrading JFET opamps (not expensive) they just plug in - TI (Burr Brown) OPA2132 or OPA2134. Winner.

Deep joy, I have broken the Linn cult's hold over me.

And yes, it's better than the Numerik
 
I heard some very nice sounds when Monsieur Y B André (the man behind YBA) was demonstrating his YBA system in Munich back in 2018 or 2019. Much, much nicer than his 1990s amps I heard at Présecne Ribe Gauche (Paris).

As for long life-expectancy... I'd go for Moon (aka Simaudio), Chord or dCS
 
uncl_nigel said:
I heard some very nice sounds when Monsieur Y B André (the man behind YBA) was demonstrating his YBA system in Munich back in 2018 or 2019. Much, much nicer than his 1990s amps I heard at Présecne Ribe Gauche (Paris).

As for long life-expectancy... I'd go for Moon (aka Simaudio), Chord or dCS
Click to expand...
I've had a lifetime of chasing my audio tail, each piece intended to 'fix' a problem with another or improving a shortfall, tripping up and signing up to the 'can you hear those 'blah''.

It took years to realise it isn't the equipment that needs listening to, it's the music and musicality. Hence why I had NO interest in Naim (to say one of the many).
I bought a 'high end' Linn system because it integrated and became invisible, delivering music and musical enjoyment until the SMPS's self destructed in the front end.

I know the history of YBA and Professor Hawksford (Essex University) and his work with FAMCO and the Nuance/Plenitude combination. You can still find the Nuance being traded at high prices.

Linn have designed in equipment redundancy and it seems every new iteration means an investment of tens of thousands as servicing / repairs are impossible (even for newer kit).

My foray into YBA was a look for a 'newer' version of the Nuance (Audio Refinement PRE 5) and a good DAC (WD202). The latter allows for changes to the OPA fitted (being JFET amps they sound 'valve' (as YBA wanted)).

I didn't exaggerate when this DAC entered my system with a Linn CD front end and blew me away with unheard detail, sound stage, space between instruments and notes.

At my age I am beyond buying top end kit (too expensive for limited return) and my upper hearing register is capped just below 10k (tested).

What I can say is - unbelievable (or should I say really believable imagery), solid stable and precise.

Really musical - creating waves of emotion and the 'system' once again vanishes.

I am looking for a CD transport with a TOSLINK out to eliminate ALL circuitry I can before the DAC. I'm nearly there and as I listen, the difference between CD and Vinyl is vanishing - seriously, it really is.

Deep joy as I can pick up CD's for less than 50c from our local charity outlets and boot sales.

Enjoy your hi-fi, love your music and realise full enjoyment is fickle if there is a power surge!
 
@d16b
For several decades I had more money invested in records (and then CDs) than in the hi-fi. With only around 6,000 albums that is not necessarily true these days :) But music is still the raison d'être of the system - I just happen to have a more expensive (and to my ears better sounding) system these days. A system purchased with a view to longterm reliability as well as sound.

As for digital and vinyl - different? definitely! Vinyl sounding better? Not any more in this house. Earlier this year all my classical vinyl went to a new home.

The YBA system I heard comprised just an integrated amp and CD player - it was relatively cheap but worked really well in one of those crappy booths at Munich. Really enjoyable music.

The best all-round (both sound and reliability) CD transport I've had was a Moon 260DT, the cheapest decent CD transport was actually a Cambridge 540 DVD player. The one I've still got (but rarely use) is a Cambridge 1st generation CXU Blu-ray (I've kept it for SACD ripping more than anything else). All have Toslink.
 
uncl_nigel said:
@d16b
For several decades I had more money invested in records (and then CDs) than in the hi-fi. With only around 6,000 albums that is not necessarily true these days :) But music is still the raison d'être of the system - I just happen to have a more expensive (and to my ears better sounding) system these days. A system purchased with a view to longterm reliability as well as sound.

As for digital and vinyl - different? definitely! Vinyl sounding better? Not any more in this house. Earlier this year all my classical vinyl went to a new home.

The YBA system I heard comprised just an integrated amp and CD player - it was relatively cheap but worked really well in one of those crappy booths at Munich. Really enjoyable music.

The best all-round (both sound and reliability) CD transport I've had was a Moon 260DT, the cheapest decent CD transport was actually a Cambridge 540 DVD player. The one I've still got (but rarely use) is a Cambridge 1st generation CXU Blu-ray (I've kept it for SACD ripping more than anything else). All have Toslink.
Click to expand...
Yes, CD / digital can sound amazingly good.

Did some research as my Karik died (SMPS fixed and working - for now). Kairn/Numerik same SMPS problem (won't revive).

Did a hmm, (as I said above), and some research.

ALL Cambridge's CD transports are the same, as are their turbo stabiliser thingy.

In for a penny I bought a positive reviewed audio disc only 350C inc remote (which works my Karik too! - remember that Linn lovers, Cambridge remotes work Linn CD players) £65 inc pp

Anyway, as I said it worked. Wow. Bit lean on optical through the Micromega.

Since I now have 3 DAC's and a pre that takes many inputs I ran some 'tests', optical, coax, phono from both through all at the same time (the PRE5 lets me flick from one to another seamlessly).

The WD202 is as good as the Numerik, yep, hard to believe but the imaging and toe tapping is the same. Having said that, I took my son's advice, he told me the op amps in the unit are JFET (valve sounding) which he uses building bass amps. The buffer op amps in the WD202 are TL072 (were) and main are OPA2034PA. I've changed the TL072's for 2032PA's from TI.

Chalk and cheese, very valve without the bass/top end problems.

And. Wow. The Cambridge has lost all the 'Cambridgeness' (the downs reviewers made on certain aspects of the device) and plays MUSIC with all the 3d deep and wide imagery I thought I had lost forever. pure joy, I have a dedicated CD transport.

Even funnier, watched a vid on YT about Cambridge's new audio only CD transport - it's an audio only CD player with no DAC board (or the same as mine ignoring the internal DAC).

Yes, it seems the output through coax is the same for all models = winner = I'm now looking for a cheap spare (even though I can get a total CD transport rebuild kit for about £40 off the web).

Oh, and the WD202 has to be heard to be believed and shortly, when my Katans become active again (2x active Klouts) paradise will be reborn.

Did I mention I have 3 DACS? (4 if you count the cheapie).

I'm going to play resurrection and get my Squeezebox to work (again) linked to my NAS + use Airplay to stream my MacBook (NAS) Audirvarna through it into the WD just to see. Deep playtime joy.

Cherry on the cake: Er' indoors has been ordering CD's again! She loves Kenny G Breathless as a demo to test my new and modified kit.
and I have found a digital version of her now defunct Shirley Bassey LP from the 70's that she played to oblivion.

Happy days
 
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

'Tuned' the Sizmik to integrate more with the Katan's (because the Klouts are in hibernation whilst the wiring gets sorted)
so down to single core cable and using my old NAD 2155.

And yes, the 'system' goes 3 D which it didn't with the Micromega's or other DAC's. I know it's not a true review because the
amp isn't up to it, well, not up to Aktiv Klout land that is.

Anyway, yes like an upgrade mug I'd swapped out the TL072 buffer op amps so OPA2132PA's as recommended and I thought I heard an improvement realising it could be a placebo effect I've waited and swapped & re swapped my CD and digital sources, inputs, TOSLINK and coax.

I'd noted the top end was a bit, restrained, almost as if there was a tone control and it was turned down.

So I bit the bullet this morning. I've pulled the OPA2032's from the buffer stage and reinstalled the TL072's.

Why on earth had I 2nd guessed YBA.

As usual I'd followed the herd on an audio forum.

Anyway. Annie Lennox is Annie Lennox again. Blondie is Blondie and Kenny G is back to playing his sax.

Mud gone, veil lifted, toe tapping music re-flows.

Do you know, you'd think my Numerik was working again and it was digitally locked to the Karik, yes, you really would.

I had thought my hearing was failing me, ejut.

Job done.

If any of you get a YBA WD202 leave well alone AND only use 75ohm for digital input from a CD/Streaming source. TOSLINK is definitively not as good and yes, you can hear the difference.

Over and out.
 
uncl_nigel said:
@d16b
For several decades I had more money invested in records (and then CDs) than in the hi-fi. With only around 6,000 albums that is not necessarily true these days :) But music is still the raison d'être of the system - I just happen to have a more expensive (and to my ears better sounding) system these days. A system purchased with a view to longterm reliability as well as sound.

As for digital and vinyl - different? definitely! Vinyl sounding better? Not any more in this house. Earlier this year all my classical vinyl went to a new home.

The YBA system I heard comprised just an integrated amp and CD player - it was relatively cheap but worked really well in one of those crappy booths at Munich. Really enjoyable music.

The best all-round (both sound and reliability) CD transport I've had was a Moon 260DT, the cheapest decent CD transport was actually a Cambridge 540 DVD player. The one I've still got (but rarely use) is a Cambridge 1st generation CXU Blu-ray (I've kept it for SACD ripping more than anything else). All have Toslink.
Click to expand...
FYI

Having lost my Karik/Numerik/Kairn from power system collapses (Slimline Brilliant) I needed a 'cheap' replacement CD to keep the music flowing.

Did some research and bought, don't laugh, Cambridge Audio Azur 350c.

Now why would I do that:-

1. It was cheap, fully working and came with a remote that works the Karik (when it works)?

Nope

2. The CD transport came with it's Cambridge focussing turbo thingy as standard and the mech is exactly the same as their high end kit?

Spot on.

Seems that no matter which Cambridge CD you buy you are paying more and more for their DAC and not the mech or stability control unit
for the drive. That turbo thingy is standard across the range

So. The cheapest Cambridge is identical to the top end Cambridge if you use it as a transport. And, the output is identical as a digital source from top to bottom of the pile.

More amazingly, if you buy the new expensive CD transport it is just the same mech and turbo thingy as all their CD players albeit without an inboard DAC, so you pay more for, er, less.

Winner winner chicken dinner and tea (for me)

I have a new (ish) fully functioning Cambridge transport inc remote for the princely sum of £65 delivered.

No brainer.

No, I admit it's not quite as revealing as my now functioning Karik.

With the (£205 delivered) WD202 my Karik is WAYYYYY better than the Karik phono audio output.

I'd say the Karik/WD202 is arguably as good as Karik Numerik, 'er indoors says so, so it must be right.

And

The Cambridge (as a transport)/WD202 combo (using 75 ohm digital coax) is way better than the Karik analogue phono output on it's own.

You do the math.

£270 all in.

That's real Yorkshire that is...
 
@d16b

I really enjoyed the Karik but it went belly up after less than 9 years from brand new - no spare parts and nobody at Linn particularly bothered about that absence... Now you know why you would have to actually give the stuff to me for free for me to ever put any Linn in the system.

At the moment my NAS is busy doing an initial all-out backup to a new external HD so I'm listening to actual CDs. Drive that Cambridge CXU into a DAC+clock into the very-silly-price range. Works very well!
 
uncl_nigel said:
@d16b

I really enjoyed the Karik but it went belly up after less than 9 years from brand new - no spare parts and nobody at Linn particularly bothered about that absence... Now you know why you would have to actually give the stuff to me for free for me to ever put any Linn in the system.

At the moment my NAS is busy doing an initial all-out backup to a new external HD so I'm listening to actual CDs. Drive that Cambridge CXU into a DAC+clock into the very-silly-price range. Works very well!
Click to expand...
If I'd only known, I'd have had the Karik off you for bits (I really do need bits to keep mine going). I've re-built the SMPS and got it going - more good luck than good management. I take it you haven't hidden it away in a dusty box in the attic as a total doorstop have you?

After my morning post I did the buggering about with the system thingy again.

The Karik is back into the WD202 into the YBA Audio Refinement PRE5 (not a bad preamp at all), then the temp NAD 2155 then Katans and Sizmik.

I'm waiting for a Logitech Harmony remote to arrive (used) to program the PRE 5 and WD202 controls into.

At that point I have no need for a preamp at all. The WD202 has remote volume and input selection and the 'out' can be used as a preamp into the Klouts directly - as the guy did I bought it off (well his brother actually as the guy had sadly died).

A highly audibly good way to go.

As my system(s) slowly crumble into landfill dust YBA will be the way to go. Formerly FAMCO and the work of Prof Hawksford at Essex University it's a rekindling of an old friendship (I had his amazing Nuance decades ago).

I have my own NAS with about 6000 on at the moment and I'm in the process of trying to figure how to wire it into my old Squeezebox to run it or, if I fail, I'll just keep using my home network wifi into my Mac, then Airplay to an Airport Extreme then into the, er, WD202 again.

It's the depth / 3D I miss more than anything when the systems aren't up to it and whilst the Micromega DACS I got are ok, they are not 3D in the Linn sense of the world.

I find I can listen to the Cambridge via a cheap 75ohm Amazon into the WD, my Pre 5 etc etc. It's now enjoyable since I've got back to original op amps in the WD.

I have to say the Karik in digital mode is way beyond the Azur, but it did cost mega bucks more than it or any of the Cambridge offerings using the same transport.

So. This weekend is me still struggling to get my Numerik back up and running (don't know whether to bother really given how good the WD is).

But my biggest problem remains the Kairn, display board went down on me and that means no standby mode for the Klouts. So frustrating. Trying to find a Kairn with a buggered power supply is like looking for hens teeth. All I want is the display board (mine has a toroidal PS thank the lord).

I chose to put the Klouts into a side room and chisel the K400's into the walls (no going back). I need a standby system for them and I can't find one of those Linn signal devices anywhere on the internet...
 
d16b said:
If I'd only known, I'd have had the Karik off you for bits (I really do need bits to keep mine going). I've re-built the SMPS and got it going - more good luck than good management. I take it you haven't hidden it away in a dusty box in the attic as a total doorstop have you?

After my morning post I did the buggering about with the system thingy again.

The Karik is back into the WD202 into the YBA Audio Refinement PRE5 (not a bad preamp at all), then the temp NAD 2155 then Katans and Sizmik.

I'm waiting for a Logitech Harmony remote to arrive (used) to program the PRE 5 and WD202 controls into.

At that point I have no need for a preamp at all. The WD202 has remote volume and input selection and the 'out' can be used as a preamp into the Klouts directly - as the guy did I bought it off (well his brother actually as the guy had sadly died).

A highly audibly good way to go.

As my system(s) slowly crumble into landfill dust YBA will be the way to go. Formerly FAMCO and the work of Prof Hawksford at Essex University it's a rekindling of an old friendship (I had his amazing Nuance decades ago).

I have my own NAS with about 6000 on at the moment and I'm in the process of trying to figure how to wire it into my old Squeezebox to run it or, if I fail, I'll just keep using my home network wifi into my Mac, then Airplay to an Airport Extreme then into the, er, WD202 again.

It's the depth / 3D I miss more than anything when the systems aren't up to it and whilst the Micromega DACS I got are ok, they are not 3D in the Linn sense of the world.

I find I can listen to the Cambridge via a cheap 75ohm Amazon into the WD, my Pre 5 etc etc. It's now enjoyable since I've got back to original op amps in the WD.

I have to say the Karik in digital mode is way beyond the Azur, but it did cost mega bucks more than it or any of the Cambridge offerings using the same transport.

So. This weekend is me still struggling to get my Numerik back up and running (don't know whether to bother really given how good the WD is).

But my biggest problem remains the Kairn, display board went down on me and that means no standby mode for the Klouts. So frustrating. Trying to find a Kairn with a buggered power supply is like looking for hens teeth. All I want is the display board (mine has a toroidal PS thank the lord).

I chose to put the Klouts into a side room and chisel the K400's into the walls (no going back). I need a standby system for them and I can't find one of those Linn signal devices anywhere on the internet...
Click to expand...
d16b said:
If I'd only known, I'd have had the Karik off you for bits (I really do need bits to keep mine going). I've re-built the SMPS and got it going - more good luck than good management. I take it you haven't hidden it away in a dusty box in the attic as a total doorstop have you?

After my morning post I did the buggering about with the system thingy again.

The Karik is back into the WD202 into the YBA Audio Refinement PRE5 (not a bad preamp at all), then the temp NAD 2155 then Katans and Sizmik.

I'm waiting for a Logitech Harmony remote to arrive (used) to program the PRE 5 and WD202 controls into.

At that point I have no need for a preamp at all. The WD202 has remote volume and input selection and the 'out' can be used as a preamp into the Klouts directly - as the guy did I bought it off (well his brother actually as the guy had sadly died).

A highly audibly good way to go.

As my system(s) slowly crumble into landfill dust YBA will be the way to go. Formerly FAMCO and the work of Prof Hawksford at Essex University it's a rekindling of an old friendship (I had his amazing Nuance decades ago).

I have my own NAS with about 6000 on at the moment and I'm in the process of trying to figure how to wire it into my old Squeezebox to run it or, if I fail, I'll just keep using my home network wifi into my Mac, then Airplay to an Airport Extreme then into the, er, WD202 again.

It's the depth / 3D I miss more than anything when the systems aren't up to it and whilst the Micromega DACS I got are ok, they are not 3D in the Linn sense of the world.

I find I can listen to the Cambridge via a cheap 75ohm Amazon into the WD, my Pre 5 etc etc. It's now enjoyable since I've got back to original op amps in the WD.

I have to say the Karik in digital mode is way beyond the Azur, but it did cost mega bucks more than it or any of the Cambridge offerings using the same transport.

So. This weekend is me still struggling to get my Numerik back up and running (don't know whether to bother really given how good the WD is).

But my biggest problem remains the Kairn, display board went down on me and that means no standby mode for the Klouts. So frustrating. Trying to find a Kairn with a buggered power supply is like looking for hens teeth. All I want is the display board (mine has a toroidal PS thank the lord).

I chose to put the Klouts into a side room and chisel the K400's into the walls (no going back). I need a standby system for them and I can't find one of those Linn signal devices anywhere on the internet...
Click to expand...

uncl_nigel said:
@d16b

I really enjoyed the Karik but it went belly up after less than 9 years from brand new - no spare parts and nobody at Linn particularly bothered about that absence... Now you know why you would have to actually give the stuff to me for free for me to ever put any Linn in the system.

At the moment my NAS is busy doing an initial all-out backup to a new external HD so I'm listening to actual CDs. Drive that Cambridge CXU into a DAC+clock into the very-silly-price range. Works very well!
Click to expand...
So. what do you call very silly price range?

I know it's all relative but when I was nattering Linn for a schematic for the Kairn they told me to buy a new preamp as it's only money.

I did discuss other models with them and everyone (still for sale second hand in Linn dealerships) I mentioned are no longer supported by Linn and parts are not available - just like the CD12 - still 'buyable' the board fries and you have a VERY expensive door stop. Very expensive.

The time frame for Linn fixing stuff is getting shorter by the week and their policy seems to be sell them high, those that can afford their kit realise it's not an investment so they won't 'trade it' and when it breaks they have enough megabucks to buy more new megabucks short life kit.

Used to be as we traded our stuff up for better/more expensive kit you were investing in stuff that didn't really depreciate and actually started the hifi ladder for those lower down on the rungs. Even 40 year old NAD kit brings good money and is totally repairable.
 
uncl_nigel said:
dCS Rossini apex DAC and clock
This is my endgame digital source (says he hopefully) and I got it at below old retail. I couldn't afford this lot at current retail prices.
Click to expand...
Wow. Hope it lasts longer than my 'ultimate' Linn kit did!

I couldn't afford that lot at 1990's price!
 
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