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Would you vote for the Soubry/Umunna party?

Both the Labour and Tory splitters were in favour of the Iraq war and against an investigation into it. The Tories also voted for austerity and welfare cuts.

If they form a party, I wouldn't join. The irony is they have got, I think, the right attitude towards Brexit and a People's Vote. Labour and the Tories don't.

Some have called them the seeds of an anti-Brexit party. Think I'll vote Green.

Jack
 
palacefan said:
As I suspected Soubry stood by her support of the austerity imposed on this country by Cameron- Clegg and the rest of the inmates, how do you improve the country by slashing welfare for those in need,how do you improve health by cut backs on NHS spending, cut crime by savaging the Police etc.
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Which explains why she's apparently the only one they'll be sorry to see leaving:

"Nicholas Watt‏ @nicholaswatt
Tory minister who is a Brexit supporter: ‘genuinely saddened by departure of Anna Soubry. She is a real Conservative. Not bothered by Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen. They are not proper Conservatives - they were selected as candidates in open processes’
11:33 AM - 20 Feb 2019"
 
jackbarron said:
If they form a party, I wouldn't join. The irony is they have got, I think, the right attitude towards Brexit and a People's Vote. Labour and the Tories don't.

Some have called them the seeds of an anti-Brexit party. Think I'll vote Green.
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I’m almost certainly with you on that. I’m pretty sure I’ll be voting Green assuming a candidate. I can’t see a worthwhile centre party emerging from here yet, though it is early days. As a protest against increasingly popularist and vacuous extremes of both Conservative and Labour I respect them all hugely. They have all stood against the two hopelessly archaic parties that have ruined this nation with their ancient division, class war etc. We need to move beyond tired old arguments that date back to mill workers and the landed gentry FFS! Now the Tories are effectively UKIP and Labour the SWP I sincerely hope the majority who find both an utter irrelevance to modern life eventually find a voice.

FWIW I’d certainly struggle with voting for any party with Anna Soubry in it, she may be right on Brexit but I don’t like her policies otherwise. By saying that I couldn’t vote for any party that platformed the likes of John Mann, Geisla Stuart, Kate Hoey etc, let alone ugly things from the past such as Hatton or Galloway. I certainly respect Soubry etc for at having the guts to expose just how vile May’s party has become, as did the Labour lot earlier to theirs.

I’ve always liked Heidi Allen and felt she was clearly in the wrong party, so I guess her doing the right thing is no huge surprise. Much the same goes for Sarah Wollaston. I sincerely hope more from both parties leave the dregs to the popularist extremes. It has to be time to kill the age-old two headed beast!
 
palacefan said:
As I suspected Soubry stood by her support of the austerity imposed on this country by Cameron- Clegg and the rest of the inmates, how do you improve the country by slashing welfare for those in need,how do you improve health by cut backs on NHS spending, cut crime by savaging the Police etc
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It's depressing how supporting austerity etc is being painted as centrist and mainstream, when in reality it's pretty hardcore rightwing, way, way to the right of the traditional Labour right wing of Smith, Hattersley etc and even Jenkins, Williams et al. I'd argue that they were united by support for nato and the bomb rather more than economic or social conservatism.
 
I think it would be quite a coup for TIG to get Jess Phillips on board. TBH I'm surprised the likes of Ruth Smeeth and Margaret Hodge haven't jumped ship too.
 
At some point, they're going to need one of these

I'll get me coat, but at least Tony gets an Amazon click
 
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jackbarron said:
If they form a party, I wouldn't join. The irony is they have got, I think, the right attitude towards Brexit and a People's Vote. Labour and the Tories don't.
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This is the problem in a nutshell -- they are not a party but a group of people united on a common issue (albeit a uniquely important one). So what happens when Brexit is over and half the new group agrees with the Tories and half with Labour?

Unless we are living in one of times where everything changes like when the Whigs became the Liberals and were then usurped by the Labour party.
 
I don't care if they form a party. I want Brexit revoked.

I would enjoy watching both of the main parties being hollowed out and destroyed in the process, and the introduction of a new political landscape. But the important thing is to not leave the EU. Not to clobber our economic prospects. Not to demonstrate we can be manipulated by lying bigots.

How do 12 MPs help this? I don't know. They need to be 50. They need to vote with the SNP, LD and others of the centre. And even then they would need to shame enough other members to joining them, voting against their whip, to get anything done that doesn't lead to no deal Brexit.

Stop Brexit.

Why worry about the future past that? With a hard Brexit we might not have one.
 
matthewr said:
This is the problem in a nutshell -- they are not a party but a group of people united on a common issue (albeit a uniquely important one). So what happens when Brexit is over and half the new group agrees with the Tories and half with Labour?

Unless we are living in one of times where everything changes like when the Whigs became the Liberals and were then usurped by the Labour party.
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I'm not surprised that MPs from both sides are quitting. Brexit is the biggest political change I can remember in my lifetime and it cuts across both parties.

After Brexit? Who knows. I'm expecting a snap election and May, or her successor, walking it on the patriotic ticket - rather like Thatcher in 83. I don't think the Labour defections will have much effect. The 48% who voted to remain have no major party representing them, so I suppose anything could happen, my guess is that tribal loyalties will win out in the end.

If Galloway is allowed back into the party then I would really have to reconsider voting for Labour. As I've mentioned before I live in a Tory marginal so I'd probably hold my nose and vote for the Labour candidate - but if Galloway was back then it would be more difficult.
 
twotone said:
Well I'd vote for them if they campaign stop Brexit.

There's a huge chance right now for a new party to grasp the nettle, I think they would take a lot of voters with them.
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I think the most they'd do would be to result in a hung parliament, and possibly cause both main parties to lose marginals.
 
Stunsworth said:
I think the most they'd do would be to result in a hung parliament, and possibly cause both main parties to lose marginals.
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Don't know about that but right now they could hold the balance of power if they manage to get another five or ten MPs then it (Brexit) would become really interesting.
 
matthewr said:
This is the problem in a nutshell -- they are not a party but a group of people united on a common issue (albeit a uniquely important one). So what happens when Brexit is over and half the new group agrees with the Tories and half with Labour?
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While it's debatable that Brexit as an issue will ever really be over (in our lifetimes, at least), I suppose the theory is that Labour have moved so far left and the Tories so far right that falling back on party positions is no longer relevant for them. Those days have gone.

Plus there will also be the theory that having varying political positions in a party will encourage dialogue and compromise and lead to better policies.

But probably we'll just get wishy-washy, liberal policies for a few months or years (or maybe even weeks) until the infighting starts. A party of independent minds sounds good in theory, but the long-term prognosis for togetherness might not be so healthy. Taking over the Lib Dem franchise is the most likely path for survival.
 
One key thing that today’s defection has obviously achieved is May’s shower of Brexit extremists no longer have a majority even propped up by the DUP. The parliamentary arithmetic has now changed and this is no longer a coalition government. I don’t understand enough about parliamentary law, but I’m struggling to understand how it remains a legitimate functional entity. Surely this must mean a GE? I bet May calls one very soon now.
 
Who would have guessed that Britain would have fallen so fast. I was expecting a more leisurely decline cushioned by membership of the EU. We can expect a future PM and Chancellor telling parliament that they believe the economy has finally bottomed out and ‘our worst days are behind us’.
 
twotone said:
Don't know about that but right now they could hold the balance of power if they manage to get another five or ten MPs then it (Brexit) would become really interesting.
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Well, there was a poll in the Times this morning giving the Tories a 12 point lead over Labour, so they may turn out to be an irrelevance.

I’d expect more defections from both parties, no idea about how many.
 
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