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Why should NHS have a pay rise?

Most people working in retail [on the National Minimum Wage] will get a rise to £8.91 per hour from £8.72

2.17 per cent.

I am not convinced that I should be getting a higher percentage wage rate rise than that proposed for the NHS.

Certain members of the public are quite difficult to deal with, but not on the same level at all as health workers have faced, and will continue to.

Something to think about.

Best wishes from George
 
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George J said:
Certain members of the public are quite difficult to deal with, but not on the same level at all as health workers have faced, and will continue to.
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I wouldn’t like to work in retail anymore. I used to be what was called a ‘Shop Assistant.’

The shop sold clothes and some footwear. We had hassle weekly. This was in the early 1980’s.

On a few visits to supermarkets over the last year I have heard extreme argy-bargy, luckily not seen much. Seen police cars outside, luckily again post fracas. Frontline staff having to face the public during this mentalness deserve recognition.

@George J You are spot on when you say certain members of the public are quite difficult to deal with.

Not an easy job.
 
Cav said:
If overtime or TOIL is not authorised, they should not work extra hours for free.
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This fundamentally misunderstands the reason people take nursing jobs.

It's because they care about people other than just themselves.

Can you imagine a mum having a baby and just as the head is crowning the midwife walking out, because her shift has ended? It's not really a solution to the problem. Even if there were spare staff to take over, the very nature of deserting someone at such a critical time, is utterly and completely unthinkable. The opinion of the public would not be positive as a result.

Even worse than no overtime, my wife has done 12 hour shifts without a single rest or meal break. It's basically illegal, but common.

Yes, the staff are abused, because of their humanity and desire to care and deliver for patients, in an ideal world staffing numbers would be sufficient to cover, but it isn't and if you reward staff so poorly it will only get worse.

I particularly dislike the narrative that nurses have had big pay rises in recent years. It's bollocks for the majority, as the Nuffield report shows and as my wife worked out. For the last 12 years her pay rises amount to nothing of any significance. In real terms it's been a cut.

My wife is quite clear she will never make it to normal retirement age doing the job she does, so yes NHS pensions are better than many (worse now for new starters, but better than many in the private sector) but they used to reflect the fact that the job is frequently hard and stressful. That was recognised with an ability to retire earlier without penalty. That's long gone for new starters.

We should stop the jealousy, lets not set NHS staff against the rest of the country, my job is unimaginably easy compared to hers, yet better rewarded and I'm better treated by my employer. I'd happily forego my pay rise and pay some more tax if it means she gets the rewards she and all staff deserve.
 
Think of the sort of capitalism we live with now. People are monitored and managed to maximise their productivity. Employees engage with their employers more as individuals rather than through unions. Job security is pretty well non existant.

In that sort of system, isn’t it just inevitable that organisations will try to give as little as possible to the people they employ? And people who work in caring professions will get a bad deal financially, and a bad deal in their working conditions?

Boris gave the nurses 1% because he can.
 
The NHS is, in my experience of the various trusts my wife has worked for, a frequently abusive employer. I get really angry about it, it's horrible when your loved ones come home utterly exhausted or in a state of distress after a hard shift.

Of course it's not always like that, there's frequently days of unparalled joy, heartfelt letters and gifts from people she has cared for and that's what keeps staff going. Like thoughts and prayers, gifts and letters don't pay the bills, delightful though they are.

The other element I think people frequently overlook is that almost all staff, at every level of care, are dealing with the lives of others. The levels of responsibility would have me running scared, yet every day the decisions you make as a health service worker can make the difference between life and death.

If you are exhausted, haven't had a break and have developed a bladder the size of a welsh reservoir, the risks of making mistakes, which could kill people, become far higher. I also worry every single time my wife drives home after a night shift that one day she's not going to make it unscathed.

I'm utterly in awe of her, whilst knowing I couldn't do her job, no matter how much training or pay you gave me.

What value do you place on your life and that of the ones you love, when you find yourself helpless and in the caring hands of others?
 
Andrew L Weekes said:
This fundamentally misunderstands the reason people take nursing jobs.

It's because they care about people other than just themselves.

Can you imagine a mum having a baby and just as the head is crowning the midwife walking out, because her shift has ended? It's not really a solution to the problem. Even if there were spare staff to take over, the very nature of deserting someone at such a critical time, is utterly and completely unthinkable. The opinion of the public would not be positive as a result.

Even worse than no overtime, my wife has done 12 hour shifts without a single rest or meal break. It's basically illegal, but common.

Yes, the staff are abused, because of their humanity and desire to care and deliver for patients, in an ideal world staffing numbers would be sufficient to cover, but it isn't and if you reward staff so poorly it will only get worse.

I particularly dislike the narrative that nurses have had big pay rises in recent years. It's bollocks for the majority, as the Nuffield report shows and as my wife worked out. For the last 12 years her pay rises amount to nothing of any significance. In real terms it's been a cut.

My wife is quite clear she will never make it to normal retirement age doing the job she does, so yes NHS pensions are better than many (worse now for new starters, but better than many in the private sector) but they used to reflect the fact that the job is frequently hard and stressful. That was recognised with an ability to retire earlier without penalty. That's long gone for new starters.

We should stop the jealousy, lets not set NHS staff against the rest of the country, my job is unimaginably easy compared to hers, yet better rewarded and I'm better treated by my employer. I'd happily forego my pay rise and pay some more tax if it means she gets the rewards she and all staff deserve.
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I would not claim to know that all nurses take the job because of a caring nature any more than all police have an innate sense of justice or all civil servants are in it for the pension.

The fact is that the NHS has been chronically understaffed for years and NHS staff working extra hours for nothing is part of the problem. I am not going to reply to every "what if" scenario that people put up because that is not the real issue. Nor will I make a point that my wife, who is a teacher, has worked every day for a year (holidays, what holidays?) because she too is dedicated or too dedicated. What will she get? A kind word from the Senior Management Team all of whom had a good summer break.

The problem is this Government does not give a sh1t and anyone who continues to vote for them is a big part of that problem.

Oh! and anyone who thinks Trades Unions have had their day also enablers.
 
Sunak’s bung to the red wall ( and not so red wall )Tory seats,


“This is pork-barrel politics on a grand scale. £4.8bn is more than enough to give our 670,000 nurses a pay rise of 25% rather than the meagre below inflation 1% offered to them”.
-Jolyon Maugham QC
 
I’m afraid we are in an endless cycle of funding the NHS, it will never have enough money so it is a case of the choices Govts make. You cannot really just give Nurses a 25% pay increase as there are large numbers of other public sector workers who are equally deserving.

We tend to have a rather binary view of front line health workers, lots of analogy about ‘war zones’ etc which is unhelpful & inaccurate. Many areas of the NHS have not been stretched by Covid, quite the opposite & these sectors will suffer from a lack of attention.

A friend has just handed in her notice to work in the private sector as a nurse; quite a hefty pay rise & kinder hours.

It is always difficult to measure worth by dint of salary & this argument will run & run.
 
I don’t think anybody is suggesting nurses should get a 25% pay rise though. Jolyon Maugham is just making the point that Tory largesse to mostly Tory voting regions could cover that, so the government clearly has the money available to spend if it chooses to.
 
I have no issue with nurses getting 10% and would happily pony up my tax share for that.

I'm not so happy at NICE approving a 1.7 million pound drug...
 
Ideally the salary would be similar/comparable to the equivalent Trained Nurse salary in the U.S. and Australia.
That way maybe the N.H.S. wouldn’t lose soo many staff not long after qualification.

Or make training completely free with an obligation of 5 years N.H.S. service to get the training paid for?

An increase doesn’t need to a be an extortionate amount. Just a fair one.
 
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Bananahead said:
Please remind me, how is health care paid for in Australia?
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https://www.movehub.com/uk/moving-abroad/australia/healthcare-for-expats

What kind of healthcare does Australia have?
Australia runs on a blend of public and private healthcare.

The public system, known as Medicare (not to be confused with America’s Medicare program), provides essential hospital treatment, doctors appointments, and medicine for free – or for a substantially reduced cost. It’s funded by a form of income tax.

The private system, operated by numerous medical companies, comprises additional hospital services, along with specialist care such as dentistry, ophthalmology, audiology, physiotherapy, nursing care, and ambulances.

Unlike the UK, people in Oz rarely rely solely on public healthcare. They typically take out a medical insurance policy so that they can use a combination of public and private healthcare.

So, is healthcare in Australia free?
Sort of. The Medicare system ensures that treatment at public hospitals is free, but after that, price tags start to creep in. Certain services and medicines are heavily subsidized, while other things are left entirely for the patient to pay for.
 
Lord Bethel wtf flabbergasted, should be grateful they've got a job :eek: lots of people have lost their jobs. Nurses get well paid for what they do. Aww well lords gonna lord I suppose.
 
On the subject of nurses getting a pay rise, yes I think they should, but then so should all public sector and private sector workers.
 
Andrew L Weekes said:
The NHS is, in my experience of the various trusts my wife has worked for, a frequently abusive employer. I get really angry about it, it's horrible when your loved ones come home utterly exhausted or in a state of distress after a hard shift.

Of course it's not always like that, there's frequently days of unparalled joy, heartfelt letters and gifts from people she has cared for and that's what keeps staff going. Like thoughts and prayers, gifts and letters don't pay the bills, delightful though they are.

The other element I think people frequently overlook is that almost all staff, at every level of care, are dealing with the lives of others. The levels of responsibility would have me running scared, yet every day the decisions you make as a health service worker can make the difference between life and death.

If you are exhausted, haven't had a break and have developed a bladder the size of a welsh reservoir, the risks of making mistakes, which could kill people, become far higher. I also worry every single time my wife drives home after a night shift that one day she's not going to make it unscathed.

I'm utterly in awe of her, whilst knowing I couldn't do her job, no matter how much training or pay you gave me.

What value do you place on your life and that of the ones you love, when you find yourself helpless and in the caring hands of others?
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this is so true , been like it for decades , that's why you get what happened in Staffordshire
 
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