advertisement


Why have actives not made bigger inroads in to HiFi?

From the ‘trades’ perspective, there is a distinct lack of available upgrades with actives, especially the modern varieties where everything is built in.
Keith
 
A conspicuous lack of proven long-term serviceability aside from say ATC and MEG. No one wants to drop big bucks on what may be landfill technology in a few years. Loudspeakers are the simplest and most long-term reliable components in the whole audio chain, many of the very best designs are already half a century or more old and still going strong. Why would anyone risk combining this longevity and reliability with flavour of the month digital technology?
 
If you're talking about the traditional active systems with external crossovers, 2 or 3 sets of speaker cables, etc. then the clutter and expense is probably too much for most people.
If, by active speakers, you mean ones with built in amps, and even digital sources, then I would say that they probably represent the bulk of the market. The reason 'HiFi' manufacturers haven't gone down this road to the same extent might be that many traditional speaker manufacturers have limited expertise and resources in amplifier manufacturing. (With notable exceptions such as ATC.) Also, many (ageing) HiFi enthusiasts already have a beloved collection of hardware that they may be reluctant to part with. Maybe that will change with time?
 
Tony L said:
A conspicuous lack of proven long-term serviceability aside from say ATC and MEG. No one wants to drop big bucks on what may be landfill technology in a few years. Loudspeakers are the simplest and most long-term reliable components in the whole audio chain, many of the very best designs are already half a century or more old and still going strong. Why would anyone risk combining this longevity and reliability with flavour of the month digital technology?
Click to expand...
To enjoy vastly improved sound quality.
Keith
 
Don't most of us upgrade as more money comes our way? You can't really do that with actives.

Also, I moved to Meridian DSP5500s and it replaced my hobby of hi fi with a hobby of listening to music.

Had to buy a second system just to give me something to tinker with ...
 
Do you mean powered monitors, active monitors or active speaker systems with external amps and crossovers? Good reasons for all 3. Poor fidelity, low serviceability and high complexity & cost, respectively.
 
Julf and SQ225917 have hit the nail on the head. The main reason is that audiophiles are just so damn conservative and hung up on silly ideas about "upgrading" and "tweaking" that many won't buy a speaker, active crossover and several power amps combination that is designed to work together as one and can't have just one part changed for something else without having to re-set everything else. Active is certainly superior to passive in many ways. It's a "no brainer".

In the case of the latest integrated solutions with everything built inside the speaker and extensive use of DSP, class D amps and SMPSU's etc then TonyL's comment is very true. A servicing nightmare with built in obsolescence.

It doesn't have to be all in one box by any means though and nor does it have to use DSP or class D or SMPSU's. DSP does give certain possibilities to the crossover that are simply not possible with an analogue active crossover but an analogue one is still much better than a passive crossover and fine in most cases, some would say better in that it doesn't involve analogue to digital followed by digital to analogue conversion... I would always use analogue myself for no other reason than I don't do digital (as in use it in my own products or even kit made for my own use. I do listen to digital!) and therefore as far as I'm concerned DSP was never invented:D I'm a Luddite on that one!

It is perfectly possible to build a valve active crossover and use valve amps to drive the speakers of course... if not exactly cheap...
 
But DSP is not a feature of active speakers. It may be found in some active speakers, but you could stick it in various places. And it's just an equaliser. Unless it's a genuine non linear psychoacoustic processor, like an optimod, aural exciter or whatever this weeks gizmo is.

Edit: apologies to Arkless, as you said as much in your post.
 
I'm using KEF LS50W's as a secondary system. Now that the firmware has been updated for Roon it's a really convenient way to stream music at high quality with a minimum of wires. Keeps me & the wife very happy.
 
It is the way of most Hi-Fi nerds (self included) to upgrade in small steps as funds allow. Dumping a substantial wedge on an all-in-one system is for many not possible.
In the dim distant past I had a Naim Sara - 42 x/o - 110 x 2 active system for yonks. Very nice it was too, but a bugger to upgrade - traded to 32.5 and 135's passive, and thereon upwards. The KEF LS50's look like a nice package for a small room and not too pricey. KEF will likely be around or a while too.
 
demotivated said:
But DSP is not a feature of active speakers. It may be found in some active speakers, but you could stick it in various places. And it's just an equaliser. Unless it's a genuine non linear psychoacoustic processor, like an optimod, aural exciter or whatever this weeks gizmo is.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise.... DSP is used as a filter in just the same way as an analogue filter would be used (to set crossover frequencies and slope). It has the advantage that things which in the analogue domain would be either impossible or very difficult and expensive can readily be achieved... such things as 100dB per octave slopes or long linear time delays for driver time alignment (time delay for such reasons is also done with analogue but is much more limited and less purist).
 
There don't seem to be all that many active speakers designed for the domestic market that are priced to sit within the average persons budget (unless they've just passed me by or haven't been discussed much). If I sold all my kit I could probably afford to buy about 15% of a pair of those kii 3's that people keep rattling on about. Are there many half decent quality active options for the domestic user in the £500-£1000 bracket?
Plus not everyone wants something that looks like it's trying very hard to be ultra-modern and cutting edge, some of us still like rectangular boxes with nice real wood veneer even if they'd be filled with the latest technology.

P.S. I have owned 2 pairs of actives, and probably would have kept the 2nd pair if it weren't for the furore their looks generated in my family, looking like weird space eggs as they were :D
 
On the one hand, we complain that active means no upgrade path. On the other hand, we complain about manufacturers like Naim because they offer too complex of an upgrade path. Perhaps some have found their Goldilocks system somewhere in the middle. Perhaps some of us just like to complain.
 
calorgas said:
There don't seem to be all that many active speakers designed for the domestic market that are priced to sit within the average persons budget (unless they've just passed me by or haven't been discussed much). If I sold all my kit I could probably afford to buy about 15% of a pair of those kii 3's that people keep rattling on about. Are there many half decent quality active options for the domestic user in the £500-£1000 bracket?
Plus not everyone wants something that looks like it's trying very hard to be ultra-modern and cutting edge, some of us still like rectangular boxes with nice real wood veneer even if they'd be filled with the latest technology.

P.S. I have owned 2 pairs of actives, and probably would have kept the 2nd pair if it weren't for the furore their looks generated in my family, looking like weird space eggs as they were :D
Click to expand...

Some may remember A.L.S.O from the early to mid 80's. Active Loudspeaker Standards Organisation. Some did try to make them more popular and IIRC ARC, Linn, BLQ, A&R and a few others were members. Some made "plug in brick" passive crossovers that could be simply unplugged when the owner was ready to upgrade to active.

It will generally be more expensive to make a decent active system simply because there is more than one power amplifier required, plus an active crossover. One cannot/should not try to save money in other areas because quality drive units and well braced, properly designed cabinets etc are just as important in an active speaker as in a passive one.

Power amps may/can be a bit cheaper than expected as the losses from passive crossovers are gone and so amps for an active system rated at 100W in total (one amp per drive unit remember) will often give the same max SPL as a 200W+ amp used passively. Also in an active system the amps can be tailored to their application and so one may use 100W for the bass driver, 50W for the mid range driver and only 15W for the tweeter. If the 100W bass amp clips it doesn't effect the other two amps and so A/ will be much less noticeable and B/ won't damage the mid or tweeter drivers.

Provided you know what you are dong in terms of matching gains, input impedances and phases of amps (or can engage someone like myself or a helpful DIYer to assist) then yes you can use say a big SS amp on the bass with a class A SS amp on the mid and a SET on the tweeter... a tweakers paradise in that way! As the bass amp would only be working up to say 600Hz in such a set up, it should not matter if you choose an amp known for incredible slam and bass control but normally let down by a rough top end... it's not driving the mid or tweeter.

Just a few of the many "hidden" advantages of active above there;) Some more? OK then...

Each amp being directly connected to an individual driver sans passive crossover means it can control and grip that driver much better than in a passive set up.

Not only that but it can control it outside its passband i.e. if a bass amp is electronically crossed over at 600Hz to the mid driver then although the output of the bass amp is rolled off above 600Hz it is still giving its full damping factor and "grip" at say 1100Hz, where there may be a resonance of the bass driver. The same applies to the other drivers of course.

Steeper slope crossovers can much more easily be designed and built using active techniques and with much tighter tolerances. The higher the order of a filter the more sensitive to component tolerances it gets and with the 10-20% type tolerances common in parts for passive crossovers it can be difficult and expensive to even approach the accuracy easily achievable with active crossovers.

Time alignment is much easier and this plus similar techniques can be used to help control the dispersion pattern of the speaker, or even make it adjustable I guess...

It's a wonder passive crossovers are even used in hi fi of any real quality pretensions... is the (correct) conclusion you will see in many or most treatise on the subject...
 
sq225917 said:
Nothing to fiddle with, no upgrades to sell
Click to expand...
I was going to say the same. HIFI is largely as much or even more a hobby than it a means to an end, and actives remove much of the hobby aspect. Other than that, a lot of actives are nearfield monitors which don’t work so well for use in a living room at larger distances.
 
Tony L said:
A conspicuous lack of proven long-term serviceability aside from say ATC and MEG. No one wants to drop big bucks on what may be landfill technology in a few years. Loudspeakers are the simplest and most long-term reliable components in the whole audio chain, many of the very best designs are already half a century or more old and still going strong. Why would anyone risk combining this longevity and reliability with flavour of the month digital technology?
Click to expand...
That’s a good point that I hadn’t really thought about, I’m actually pretty handy with SMD rework so these things don’t tend to bother me, I service my own kit... the killer would be if an obsolete DSP chip fails or you get a big short on a multilayer PCB which burns internal traces, the latter can sometimes be fixed with a schematic, some mod wire and a lot of patience but it ain’t pretty.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top