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Why do decent audio cables cost so much?

I hate any thread designed to highlight the stupidity of buying something because it costs more than “you” think it should. Completely pointless 😎🤦‍♂️ for a hobby with a truly massive law of diminishing returns curve……….
 
tenpercenter said:
I hate any thread designed to highlight the stupidity of buying something because it costs more than “you” think it should. Completely pointless 😎🤦‍♂️ for a hobby with a truly massive law of diminishing returns curve……….
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It is true that the markups on audio cables are very high. However that doesn't mean a thread asking why decent audio cables cost so much has no value. I've been through my phase of never ending cable upgrades which has been a learning curve. But through that process i've learned where to spend money on my system to get the best 'bang for the buck', and in the case of cables, where to find value (eg: by buying direct from the manufacturer).
 
tenpercenter said:
I hate any thread designed to highlight the stupidity of buying something because it costs more than “you” think it should. Completely pointless 😎🤦‍♂️ for a hobby with a truly massive law of diminishing returns curve……….
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The same could be said for any piece of the hifi chain. There was a very nice looking and I would think sounding system which wouldn't have cost the earth in the System Pics thread, I posted, does anyone really need more than this to enjoy music.
 
Joe said:
Therein is the central flaw of the argument .....you cannot possibly hear objectively.

The proponents of uber expensive fuses and other audiophile jewellery always claim objectivity is reason for their believe in the products.


Tell me is you see the problem I see with the statement from Salamander.
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I cannot possibly hear objectively? Sorry but just how banal can you get? See this is what I mean by low openness to experience/hyper mechanistic thinking being unable to countenance ambiguity.

Even if it were true that there was no difference that my objectives experience could hear or not, It's still MY experience, it's MY hearing, it is the ONLY thing that counts! But that's not really the point. Every audio engineer disagrees with your basic point, which is fine, I'm happy for you to think that I cannot hear the difference. Makes no difference to me. But, think of it like this:

If you are colour blind and I tell you that what you see as red, is actually what everyone else sees as green, and lets say I show you the data that proves this (wavelength of light), you're not going to suddenly start seeing red as red and green as green. You are still going to see it green as red right? Give me some rope with that argument, it's the correct idea if not necessarily the most accurate.

Let's say that you provide me objective data that I can accept proves your point and then, irrespective of this, I STILL hear in a non-objective way. What the actual blarney is the point of your point? I still hear a difference and I still enjoy what i hear more than the alternative.
 
I think that the vast sea of audio components and accessories, both present and past, and the wide pricing of such is a reflection of the fact that hearing is a precarious tool, subject to biology, propaganda and deflection and cannot be trusted to deliver to the brain anything that can be labelled as 'truth'. Personal truth is as good as it gets. Some groups may find occasional consensus, but consensus isn't truth.
 
Salamander said:
We've never tried any of the audiophile fuses, unsure about safety even though there has been good reports about sq improvement. Maybe one day, but going back to cables, expensive ones depreciate pretty rapidly so you can buy 2nd hand at a more reasonable prices from these 'fools' everyone keeps mentioning. 😁
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The $200 SR fuse is chump change compared to the $10k fuse QSC fuse inserted into a $10k Sean Jacobs power supply for the Chord DAVE. The differences were profound and transformational. Even the owner admitted so, and purchased the said fuse.

Me...I use a fuse replacements that costs way less than $10k, but is not CE certified.
 
rontoolsie said:
The $200 SR fuse is chump change compared to the $10k fuse QSC fuse inserted into a $10k Sean Jacobs power supply for the Chord DAVE. The differences were profound and transformational. Even the owner admitted so, and purchased the said fuse.
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When i've got the funds, I plan to upgrade the stock fuses in my Vitus integrated & future sacd transport and dac to QSA red/black fuses. They're not exactly cheap, but are the sweet spot in QSA's range. They do make a worthwhile difference in high end gear.
 
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geetee1972 said:
I cannot possibly hear objectively? Sorry but just how banal can you get? See this is what I mean by low openness to experience/hyper mechanistic thinking being unable to countenance ambiguity.
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You are ,I think, conflating objective with subjective....but do carry on in that patronising manner you have...you are on a roll there.

Your "objective experience " is subjective .

This is what you posted about yourself upthread........ "As a very well educated individual, who has published in academic journals and fully understands research and data collection methodologies............". Given that, I would expect you to know the difference. ( see ?...I can be patronising too :))


.........subjective | səbˈdʒɛktɪv | adjective 1) based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Contrasted with objective: his views are highly subjective | there is always the danger of making a subjective judgement. • dependent on the mind or on an individual's perception for its existence.This is you post up stream...."

............objective | əbˈdʒɛktɪv |
adjective 1 (of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. Contrasted with subjective: historians try to be objective and impartial. • not dependent on the mind for existence; actual: a matter of objective
 
One of my favourite supposed quotes via a late Jewish antique dealer friend when he was showing carpets to a very wealthy client and she asked a leading, quite clever and honest question...

"Why is this carpet [pointing at one] so much more expensive than this one [pointing at another] ??"

His response?..

"Ahh! That would be the profit madam"

o_O
 
The real problem with such 'batshit-to-eveyone-else' discussion, is this:

It is important, always - to keep an open mind; even when preferring Objectivity.

yet
..not so much your brain falls-out. The warning against total- Subjective appraisal.
 
I was once told by a dealer that everything (you change) makes a difference. Some you might not reliably detect. Others you might not like. But unless the changes are made by someone else (blind), then I would personally struggle with expectation bias, as much as I might trust my own ears.

In my experience, cables - unless electrically incompatible - tend to bring micro-level changes, compared to things like a different turntable/arm/cart or room set-up, which bring macro-level changes. If you care about musical performance to the nth degree, and want to wring as much out of your music collection as possible, I can understand spending time, effort and money on the best cables to please your ears.

But I sincerely hope you have paid as much attention to the macro as you do the micro stuff. There is a hierarchy of what matters, and in my estimation, it starts with the room, followed by loudspeakers, then amplifier and source components. Cables are near the bottom for the reasons I outlined earlier. It is probably why my entire rig is wired with Mogami cables. It's simply good enough to deliver the macro-goodness.
 
Joe said:
You are ,I think, conflating objective with subjective....but do carry on in that patronising manner you have...you are on a roll there.

Your "objective experience " is subjective .

This is what you posted about yourself upthread........ "As a very well educated individual, who has published in academic journals and fully understands research and data collection methodologies............". Given that, I would expect you to know the difference. ( see ?...I can be patronising too :))


.........subjective | səbˈdʒɛktɪv | adjective 1) based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Contrasted with objective: his views are highly subjective | there is always the danger of making a subjective judgement. • dependent on the mind or on an individual's perception for its existence.This is you post up stream...."

............objective | əbˈdʒɛktɪv |
adjective 1 (of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. Contrasted with subjective: historians try to be objective and impartial. • not dependent on the mind for existence; actual: a matter of objective
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I wasn't patronising you. You'll know when I am patronising you because I'll talk down to you. Where's the kiss emoji when you need one?

My point is this. My experience may be entirely subjective by the definitions you offer, I don't dispute that. But when it is the ONLY thing that I can experience, when my subjective experience is the ONLY frame of reference I can actually experience as a human being, at that point it becomes as objective as any externally measured data can be, more so even. It may still be 'subjective' by the strict definition of the term but if I am physically prevented from experiencing anything other than a subjective experience, what's the difference?
 
geetee1972 said:
I wasn't patronising you. You'll know when I am patronising you because I'll talk down to you. Where's the kiss emoji when you need one?

My point is this. My experience may be entirely subjective by the definitions you offer, I don't dispute that. But when it is the ONLY thing that I can experience, when my subjective experience is the ONLY frame of reference I can actually experience as a human being, at that point it becomes as objective as any externally measured data can be, more so even. It may still be 'subjective' by the strict definition of the term but if I am physically prevented from experiencing anything other than a subjective experience, what's the difference?
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The difference is that ,certainly in the aural realm all we can ever have is subjective opinions and thus everything that we declare should be prefaced by the words " in my opinion".

There is a lot of things being declaimed as hard facts that just can't ever be facts....just someone's opinion. I made comment about someone saying that they had heard good reports about expensive fuses...... I tried to say that they are not reports they are just someone opinion made to sound authoritative .

For instance....I wouldn't take my word on anything to do with the "sound" of something......even the sound of a particular record because I can't detect anything above about 14khz anymore. My opinion is worthless but without you knowing about the poor quality of my hearing you wouldn't know that and I could dole out advice left and right and it all be , not only just my opinion but ,completely flawed.

I have said it before but HiFi is a funny business and I can think of no other business where outright lies go unchallenged by trading standards...there are no advertising blocks on claims that are plain utter nonsense. It also seems to correlate that the more expensive the product in relation to its components value the bigger the lies/claims can be.
 
I like the story of speaker designer John Dunlavy who would try out speakers for customers using different cables. His assistants behind the speakers would hold up the pair to be tested, and the customers would hear huge differences - the problem being that no cables were ever changed and they had been listening to the same cables all the time.
 
If you’re trying different interconnect and speaker cables to tweak your system tonally may I suggest a Schiit Loki. I know it’s anathema to some to stick an equalizer in the signal path, but recordings have been through that and much much more before they made it onto an LP, CD, SACD or stream.

I tried a Loki a while ago and it’s most definitely da shit I’d recommend for your tonal woes.

Joe
 
geetee1972 said:
But when it is the ONLY thing that I can experience, when my subjective experience is the ONLY frame of reference I can actually experience as a human being, at that point it becomes as objective as any externally measured data can be, more so even. It may still be 'subjective' by the strict definition of the term but if I am physically prevented from experiencing anything other than a subjective experience, what's the difference?
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I guess the problem is reconciling perception (subjective) with specification or measurement (objective) as it is impossible to explain every aspect of performance. So round and round we go with the circular arguments. We also like different things, so what's good and important to you may be completely irrelevant to another.
 
Having had a relative that ran through a range of ‘exotic’ cables I was able to try them as he handed them down to me. I sold all on. It convinced me that spending so much gained so little. Since then I’ve used Amazon and just recently Worlds Best. That’s about as much as I will spend. I tried one his Crystal Cables recently. My whole view of cables has changed since I was younger.
 
9 pages and counting. I couldn't care less how much people want to spend on a cable its their choice. The OP asked a legitimate question which seems to spark some ridiculous comments but many failed to even bother attempting to answer. CJ 14 gave a good insight but seemed to get lost in the noise of "I can't hear any difference"
If cables are of no interest why bother contributing just to stir sh%t. Over the years I have found some cable are better than others, take it or leave it.
 
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