Who's Heard the Dutch & Dutch Speakers

[Strictly Stereo]

I’m not quite following how that relates to a lack of warranty on used items? I would have assumed both offer excellent customer service and I’ve certainly not read anything untoward, but outside of warranty in the future leaves buyers of used pairs with an unknown quantity in case of a fault. It may mean repair/replacement costs even on a unit under 5 years old. Certainly got me thinking.

Will be interesting to see what Dutch & Dutch come back with. Perhaps there’s will turn out to be transferable or tied to product rather than first owner, which is a much better/fairer system IMO.

There is nothing in the Dutch & Dutch 8c warranty terms which specifically excludes transferring the warranty to a second owner.

There is a reason why warranties are tied to people rather than products. From a legal standpoint, at least in the UK and European Union, the warranty is part of the contract between the original purchaser and the retailer. What manufacturers are effectively doing is underwriting that warranty. If you want your warranty to be transferable, there is nothing to prevent you from negotiating that with the retailer.

 

[Purité Audio]

I’m not quite following how that relates to a lack of warranty on used items? I would have assumed both offer excellent customer service and I’ve certainly not read anything untoward, but outside of warranty in the future leaves buyers of used pairs with an unknown quantity in case of a fault. It may mean repair/replacement costs even on a unit under 5 years old. Certainly got me thinking.

Will be interesting to see what Dutch & Dutch come back with. Perhaps there’s will turn out to be transferable or tied to product rather than first owner, which is a much better/fairer system IMO.

Point taken, just checked with the U.K. Kii distributor and the warranty is not transferable, two year standard with a three year extension once registered.
Keith

 

[Hifi_swlon]

There is nothing in the Dutch & Dutch 8c warranty terms which specifically excludes transferring the warranty to a second owner.

There is a reason why warranties are tied to people rather than products. From a legal standpoint, at least in the UK and European Union, the warranty is part of the contract between the original purchaser and the retailer. What manufacturers are effectively doing is underwriting that warranty. If you want your warranty to be transferable, there is nothing to prevent you from negotiating that with the retailer.

Definitely some brands have a ‘transferable’ warranty. Devialet, ATC are two I know of.

It means there’s no negotiation needed and any purchaser of used kit can rest assured they’re covered within the warranty period (with Devialet there’s a simple web registration).

Dutch and Dutch couldn’t say either way and said they’d confirm next week. I wonder if it’s just something they haven’t considered properly yet?

Kii have confirmed that their warranties aren’t transferable. So doesn’t seem like there’s scope to negotiate!
No idea what their out of warranty repair costs might be but it certainly means used items are less attractive (to me anyway) and may make selling in the future a bit harder. If both were a grand or two I’d probably just look at it in the same way as my TV, but at £8K-12K.......

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Definitely some brands have a ‘transferable’ warranty. Devialet, ATC are two I know of.

It means there’s no negotiation needed and any purchaser of used kit can rest assured they’re covered within the warranty period (with Devialet there’s a simple web registration).

Dutch and Dutch couldn’t say either way and said they’d confirm next week. I wonder if it’s just something they haven’t considered properly yet?

Kii have confirmed that their warranties aren’t transferable. So doesn’t seem like there’s scope to negotiate!
No idea what their out of warranty repair costs might be but it certainly means used items are less attractive (to me anyway) and may make selling in the future a bit harder. If both were a grand or two I’d probably just look at it in the same way as my TV, but at £8K-12K.......

I understand that some manufacturers explicitly cover transferability in their warranty terms. I actually rather like this and I wish that more manufacturers would do it. What really matters here though is that everyone involved clearly understands the terms and honours them if and when problems arise. That allows customers to make informed decisions.

Your contract is with the retailer rather than the manufacturer. Therefore, there is scope to negotiate with the retailer over special terms. A Kii retailer could agree to make the warranty transferable, even though Kii itself does not. This means that the retailer would be responsible for any repair costs not covered under the manufacturer's terms. Obviously, the retailer is taking on extra risk here and possibly some extra cost down the road, so they might reasonably expect some consideration in return.

A common question from pro audio customers is how quickly we can get a replacement speaker to them in the event of a failure. The answer is that we can guarantee replacement the same day, but that level of support necessarily comes at a premium rather than as standard.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

If this is important to you then buy the Dutch & Dutch 8c rather than the Kii Three, and come and buy them here. As of right now, I see nothing in the Dutch & Dutch 8c terms which would prevent a second owner from claiming warranty benefits and I would vigorously defend their claim to a free repair.

 

[Andrew C!]

I’m happy there is a 5 year warranty, and would echo the comments regarding dealer relationship being paramount. I’m not likely to be selling on within that time, either.

 

[Hifi_swlon]

If this is important to you then buy the Dutch & Dutch 8c rather than the Kii Three, and come and buy them here. As of right now, I see nothing in the Dutch & Dutch 8c terms which would prevent a second owner from claiming warranty benefits and I would vigorously defend their claim to a free repair.

Thanks Lee.... didn’t mean to make such a thing about this - maybe I’m spoilt with Devialet warranty (although not sure if it’s the same on Phantoms as Experts) - I just assumed the same with something like the Kii Three and was surprised by their reply.
Let’s wait and see what Dutch say officially, once they’ve, er, decided...

At the end of the day the purchase decision is based on many things, with sound at the top, but it’s expensive kit and so more pointing out for anyone that didn’t know or hadn’t thought about it - its worth factoring in especially if considering used.

I’m happy there is a 5 year warranty, and would echo the comments regarding dealer relationship being paramount. I’m not likely to be selling on within that time, either.

True, but who knows what the future holds, in a few years they or someone else might make something you prefer and you’ll want to sell sooner... (sorry, sorry)

Anyway, back to the non warranty related discussions.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Thanks Lee.... didn’t mean to make such a thing about this - maybe I’m spoilt with Devialet warranty (although not sure if it’s the same on Phantoms as Experts) - I just assumed the same with something like the Kii Three and was surprised by their reply.
Let’s wait and see what Dutch say officially, once they’ve, er, decided...

At the end of the day the purchase decision is based on many things, with sound at the top, but it’s expensive kit and so more pointing out for anyone that didn’t know or hadn’t thought about it - its worth factoring in especially if considering used.

I am not sure about Devialet's amplifiers, but there has been a good deal of chat here about Phantoms not being repaired/replaced after the standard two year warranty or the extra cost one year extension has expired. One thing I am quite sure of is that both Kii and Dutch & Dutch will provide repair services for their products, albeit at the owner's expense, even after the warranty has expired.

 

[Andrew C!]

True, but who knows what the future holds, in a few years they or someone else might make something you prefer and you’ll want to sell sooner... (sorry, sorry)

Yes, very true. Hopefully though I’ll not be suffering speaker upgraditis any time soon.

One of the first things I asked Lee was around the servicing and repair of what is a fair amount of moving parts, even after warranty expiration. I was suitably reassured, hence the order.

 

[Purité Audio]

I am not sure about Devialet's amplifiers, but there has been a good deal of chat here about Phantoms not being repaired/replaced after the standard two year warranty or the extra cost one year extension has expired. One thing I am quite sure of is that both Kii and Dutch & Dutch will provide repair services for their products, albeit at the owner's expense, even after the warranty has expired.

Certainly Kii replaced a very early pair of THREEs even though they were technically out of warranty, that was the original owner though, I thought the Devialet amps were very good when we had one here, quiet, capable, what aren’tyou sure about?
Keith

 

[Emlin]

I see that the rather expensive Beolab 90 speakers only come with a three year warranty. Pause for thought?

 

[Cereal Killer]

By UK law if an electrical item has an inherent fault the manufacturer is liable for 6 years - hence the warranty ATC offer as standard.

 

[Tigerjones]

I see that the rather expensive Beolab 90 speakers only come with a three year warranty. Pause for thought?

And they look like a golf bag.

 

[Purité Audio]

I see that the rather expensive Beolab 90 speakers only come with a three year warranty. Pause for thought?

I would still like a pair though.
Keith

 

[Hifi_swlon]

I would still like a pair though.
Keith

Me too!

(I think they look cool)

 

[Strictly Stereo]

By UK law if an electrical item has an inherent fault the manufacturer is liable for 6 years - hence the warranty ATC offer as standard.

It's not so straightforward. If a fault occurs after six months then you have to prove that the fault was present at the time of manufacture. That might be difficult to prove, so while this might provide a useful last resort in the event of a disagreement, you should really look to the manufacturer or retailer's warranty first when making purchasing decisions.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Me too!

(I think they look cool)

Me too, even though they look like Daleks wearing tights.

 

[brumjam]

I would still like a pair though.
Keith

Me too. Although I would have to listen to them in a dark room. They may frighten the kids.

 

[Hifi_swlon]

It's not so straightforward. If a fault occurs after six months then you have to prove that the fault was present at the time of manufacture. That might be difficult to prove, so while this might provide a useful last resort in the event of a disagreement, you should really look to the manufacturer or retailer's warranty first when making purchasing decisions.

Presumably this also only applies to the original purchaser and in the uk.

It’s just so much easier if the manufacturer commits to support the product based on age.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Presumably this also only applies to the original purchaser and in the uk.

Yes.

It is worth pointing out though that this legislation applies to both new and secondhand goods purchased from retailers. So if you buy used goods from a business rather than a private individual, you do get some additional protection.