bottleneck
pfm Member
this it?
I have one sitting in my kitchen as we speak!
I have one sitting in my kitchen as we speak!
Who Can Speak From Experience On Vintage vs. Modern Equipment Sonic Quality?
- Thread starter naimnut
- Start date
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
bottleneck said:this it?
I have one sitting in my kitchen as we speak!
Looks about right. I have a vague memory of the one I had having some sort of tuning meter.. maybe a magic eye valve? Dunno. Anyway, it sounded fab.
Mull
murray johnson
pfm Member
the troughline does have a 'magic eye' tube to the left of the frequency calibrations.
In an area with good reception this can be one of the best sources money can buy. Live R3 broadcasts in particular can be absolutely astonishing.
In an area with good reception this can be one of the best sources money can buy. Live R3 broadcasts in particular can be absolutely astonishing.
imperfectcircle
pfm Member
I think it really comes down to personal taste. But I also believe that thier are both good and bad equipment, both vintage and new. Classic designs like the Klipsch Horn or Quad stats still sound good today because they were great designs. Just like the good sounding stuff of today. As for narrow baffle speakers being crap, I think thats BS! Thier are tons of great sounding narrow baffle speakers available, just as thier are tons af absolutely crappy wide baffle speakers. It all comes down to this. There is good and bad things in every part of life audio is included.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
A wide-baffle loudspeaker is easier to design, requires less baffle step compensation, has diffractive distortion at much lower frequencies, and can be just as holographic as the slimmest design. The only trouble with wide baffles is the visual real estate they take up. Thankfully, fashion is a matter of personal taste.
James
James
joel
Painter of Dragons, Maker of Mirrors
Can have all kinds of bad things - that depends on the designer I guess - and will never image like Audio Physics (although that is also a horn thing, which is the other part of the equation). As far as real estate goes, JBLs and my little EVs are wide but surprisingly slim and actually take up less room in the room as a consequence. The TAD-Exclusive speakers are another story. They're huge all round.James said:
Jonathan Ribee
Unavailable at present
Holographic imaging a modern taste?
With a 1950s Jazz album and 1950s cartridge driving a 1950s based designed valve phono stage and amp into 1950s Quad electrostatics - I'm getting some holographic imaging. Except of course, a) they never were in those places when it was recorded, and b) when I lean forward to pick up cup/glass the image goes away!
More usefully - I wonder if when we are comparing older gear with the modern equipment there is probably more to it than just taste. Often the second hand / refurbished bargain would have cost ten times as much as the modern gear we are comparing it to. Also the old stuff that is still kicking about is sort of self selected as good. People have kept on to it and looked after it for a reason. It survives because it is good. There will have been a lot of crap stuff that was discarded.
It's sort of like listening to Mozart. You can't listen to many of his contemporaries because they haven't survived. Comparing Mozart to Girls R Dancin' (tm) (or whatever) might be unfair. OK Extreme example!
J
With a 1950s Jazz album and 1950s cartridge driving a 1950s based designed valve phono stage and amp into 1950s Quad electrostatics - I'm getting some holographic imaging. Except of course, a) they never were in those places when it was recorded, and b) when I lean forward to pick up cup/glass the image goes away!
More usefully - I wonder if when we are comparing older gear with the modern equipment there is probably more to it than just taste. Often the second hand / refurbished bargain would have cost ten times as much as the modern gear we are comparing it to. Also the old stuff that is still kicking about is sort of self selected as good. People have kept on to it and looked after it for a reason. It survives because it is good. There will have been a lot of crap stuff that was discarded.
It's sort of like listening to Mozart. You can't listen to many of his contemporaries because they haven't survived. Comparing Mozart to Girls R Dancin' (tm) (or whatever) might be unfair. OK Extreme example!
J
martin clark
pinko bodger
Fiar point ..and the pair of ESLs you have are so very, very good.
For everyone else bopping along at home, Jonathan once came round to play, and we had to fight for the 6" dia. listening spot. He's bigger than I am, and won.
For everyone else bopping along at home, Jonathan once came round to play, and we had to fight for the 6" dia. listening spot. He's bigger than I am, and won.
Rubbish:james said:
naimnut
Deep in the Mines of Soul
Obviously there are multiple possible sonic priorities for all of us as people who listen to music and care about it enough to post on (and frequently read/refer to) this message board.
It may not be possible for me to arrive at any specific conclusion with respect to my original question. But from a practical standpoint perhaps the most that I can do is to refine my short list of questions I want to get answers to.
From a practical standpoint, I may never arrive at an conclusions with respect to vintage vs. modern gear, unless I get lucky and happen to stumble upon a pair of vintage Altec VOTT or learn enough about JBL's to replicate a pair of 4338s without importing them from Japan.
While I appreciate the sound of my Dynaco ST70 and my vintage KLH model 6s, I am aware of their limitations. Their limitations don't interfere with my ability to enjoy the music or the sound that they make. But I don't deceive myself that the represent a version of the sonic truth; they're too colored and bandwidth limited. (I know I sound like I'm debating something with someone here, and I know I'm not. I'm just rambling, I guess.)
But I do really enjoy reading the posts of those whose systems have evolved over time, I really do. The other day I was on the 47 labs website. Their "showroom" systems, posted by purchasers, were fun to look at and read about. And I enjoy reading about those who have churned through a lot of gear and ended up with some kind of satisfactory systems answer to the musical quest.
For me, for now, Naim equipment is doing the trick. 72/hicap/135s. I really enjoy the way this system sounds in my listening room.
And this board has me pondering all kinds of possible experiments. Now I'm even thinking of NOS D/A converters!
Markus
It may not be possible for me to arrive at any specific conclusion with respect to my original question. But from a practical standpoint perhaps the most that I can do is to refine my short list of questions I want to get answers to.
From a practical standpoint, I may never arrive at an conclusions with respect to vintage vs. modern gear, unless I get lucky and happen to stumble upon a pair of vintage Altec VOTT or learn enough about JBL's to replicate a pair of 4338s without importing them from Japan.
While I appreciate the sound of my Dynaco ST70 and my vintage KLH model 6s, I am aware of their limitations. Their limitations don't interfere with my ability to enjoy the music or the sound that they make. But I don't deceive myself that the represent a version of the sonic truth; they're too colored and bandwidth limited. (I know I sound like I'm debating something with someone here, and I know I'm not. I'm just rambling, I guess.)
But I do really enjoy reading the posts of those whose systems have evolved over time, I really do. The other day I was on the 47 labs website. Their "showroom" systems, posted by purchasers, were fun to look at and read about. And I enjoy reading about those who have churned through a lot of gear and ended up with some kind of satisfactory systems answer to the musical quest.
For me, for now, Naim equipment is doing the trick. 72/hicap/135s. I really enjoy the way this system sounds in my listening room.
And this board has me pondering all kinds of possible experiments. Now I'm even thinking of NOS D/A converters!
Markus
Jonathan Ribee
Unavailable at present
Markus
Yes - there are definitely things that my new/old set up can't do that my old/new set up could. But the valves and Quads win on the most things. Previously I could probably easily host a rave. Maybe not now. Taste. Relativity. You also sometimes need to hear something different to figure out what you were looking for all along.
Martin
Hey - lefty and righty in their old home! I've got some pics of where they are now, but have nowhere set up to host them. I'll send you some so you can see I'm not mistreating them. But you should come see for yourself next time you're oop t'north.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Yes - there are definitely things that my new/old set up can't do that my old/new set up could. But the valves and Quads win on the most things. Previously I could probably easily host a rave. Maybe not now. Taste. Relativity. You also sometimes need to hear something different to figure out what you were looking for all along.
Martin
Hey - lefty and righty in their old home! I've got some pics of where they are now, but have nowhere set up to host them. I'll send you some so you can see I'm not mistreating them. But you should come see for yourself next time you're oop t'north.
Cheers,
Jonathan
martin clark
pinko bodger
Oh I will. I hope you've stacked them and run giant-mono.
Richard C.
pfm Member
naimnut said:
Markus, I think you have put this rather well.
I have come to the view that this whole hi-fi business is an evolutionary one. The "multiple possible sonic priorities" are individual, certainly, but they change as we grow older - I hesitate to say "develop"! Consequently we keep changing equipment not only as a reflection of supposed improvements in technology but also because of our own changing tastes and attendant priorities. It also happens to be fun, at least it used to be. Upgrading a DAC doesn't have quite the same sense of adventure as trying a Burne-Jones tangential arm with Ronette TX88 . . .
However, I think there is some point to which we naturally gravitate sooner or later and having found that point and being happy with it, our quest for whatever we were seeking is over. In my case, this journey has been circular; I first heard a Tannoy speaker in the early 'fifties and immediately realised that this was something special. I built a Williamson in 1954 and was happy with it until I was persuaded that something else (don't remember what it was) was better. It wasn't. Same goes for all the other kit bought and sold over the years. It's been a fun journey but I'm pretty well back where I started more than half a century ago - I have been drawn to my gravitational locus.
It is not fair to make direct subjective comparisons over such a long time span but I consider my current amplifier to be the best I have ever owned, probably by virtue of improved modern components and, of course, the speaker design (wide baffle) is contemporaneous with Mr Williamson's push-pull marvel and (with the exception of the Autograph) has never been bettered in my judgment.
I don't use the Ariston/Decca/Ortofon/SME/Shure much anymore; CD's are good enough for my deteriorating hearing but for a long time I have been totally smitten with my WAD 6550 amplifier (refined Mullard 5/20) and GRF Tannoys. It took a long time to arrive back more or less where I started and I'm going out feet first with this lot.
I hope others reach their personal Nirvana with as much fun as I have had.
Richard.
Jonathan Ribee
Unavailable at present
Richard
The amp I'm currently using is "based on the Williamson concept" (KT88) - who was this guy? I wasn't born until 1967 (five years after the 'speakers I'm using - above) so I fear I've missed out on a bit of history.
Cheers,
Jonathan
The amp I'm currently using is "based on the Williamson concept" (KT88) - who was this guy? I wasn't born until 1967 (five years after the 'speakers I'm using - above) so I fear I've missed out on a bit of history.
Cheers,
Jonathan
martin clark
pinko bodger
D.T.N Williamson, an audio enthusiast who worked for GEC, and famed for his KT66 amp design first published in 'Wireless World' in 1947. Lots of info on the Wibbly Wobbly Web
Jonathan Ribee
Unavailable at present
I googled. Interesting. TA.
