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Which component has the biggest effect on the sound?

Joe Hutch said:
Strictly speaking of course, 'source' means recording; the finest system in the finest room is useless without it.
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I take a pretty 'ear-first' view of most audio topics. So, I'm taking 'source' to mean 'the source of the vibration hitting your ear'. What's that sound?

Strictly strictly, the recording is external to the system, though, isn't it?
 
Gerald said:
Okay , now I understand -

so I have a PT anni , Ive got 1025 to spend on speakers and a cartridge , do I spend 1000 on speakers and 25 on ATE 95E and or 595 on benz micro and 425 on speakers ?

no need to answer , there is for me only one answer and it highlights your position is flawed in my opinion .
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Depending on what you've spent on the rest of the system, I suspect either option would be crazy. If it's one or the other: speakers/room every time. Then you'd be able to tell what those cartridges actually sound like!

Primarily, though, it's about assigning budget in the right proportion to get the best value. As a very rough guide - depending on many variables - you won't go far wrong assigning 50-60% of your total system budget to the speakers/room.
 
Tony L said:
Some systems touted as being 'coherent', 'about the tune' etc by some of your favourite merchants rate amongst the worst hyped-up, unnatural and thoroughly amusical I have ever heard in my life. I'd not wish to listen to a whole track on them, let alone a whole album.
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He did go through a bit of a bass-light and thin sounding era a few years back but the philosophy is basically right imho.

I'd be delighted were pfm to simply be viewed as a decent and sensible audio forum. I'm certainly not looking to push any specific ideology or agenda here other than maybe a priority of the vintage, second hand and DIY aspects of the hobby. The site was initially built on a 'free Hi-Fi' concept (i.e. buy wisely and you'll not lose much if any money when you sell) and that remains my attitude today. I just buy sensible tried and tested audio kit and have little if any interest in flavour-of-the-month nonsense or foo. Aside from a couple of distractions here and there it's what I've always done really.

PS IMHO you are in a rather weak position to argue about 'source first' etc as you have but a single source and I've never heard you discuss different CD masterings etc. This is where the smart money is - there vastly more difference between say a Ron McMaster and RVG Edition Blue Note CD than you'll get in a whole lifetime of faffing around with foo plug doilies or whatever in a nodding-dog shop environment. This is real audible and measurable difference.
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Obviously recording and mastering quality is important. Some of the pop stuff my wife buys is unlistenable for this reason, especially the latest Gary Barlow CD of hers but Daft Punk sounds great.

The plug doily as you put it took 1 minute, if that, out of my 44 years and 364 days of being alive - hardly a lifetime of "faffing about with plug foo doilies." In fact, until you reminded me of it I'd forgotten it was there. Hyperbole, don't you just love it!

One day I might get a record player and raid the s/h record shop in the local indoor market. The Rega P8 looks nice but I have no idea how it sounds.
 
Steven Toy said:
Obviously recording and mastering quality is important. Some of the pop stuff my wife buys is unlistenable for this reason, especially the latest Gary Barlow CD of hers but Daft Punk sounds great.

The plug doily as you put it took 1 minute, if that, out of my 44 years and 364 days of being alive - hardly a lifetime of "faffing about with plug foo doilies." In fact, until you reminded me of it I'd forgotten it was there. Hyperbole, don't you just love it!

One day I might get a record player and raid the s/h record shop in the local indoor market. The Rega P8 looks nice but I have no idea how it sounds.
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Must have taken you considerably longer than that to evaluate its efficacy .

I can take a hint , premature birthday wishes ;)
 
Gerald said:
Must have taken you considerably longer than that to evaluate its efficacy .
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It took about 2 minutes, plus I'd heard a demo at the shop. It took a few minutes for me to write about it though and upload a pic. It took a lot longer than that for a few folks to take the piss...

I can take a hint , premature birthday wishes ;)
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Thanks. As of tomorrow I join the pfm demographic and become and Old Fart :)
 
Steven Toy said:
S,ok, I'm nowhere near the edges so there is no danger of me falling off.

Perception is everything. Nothing else really matters.
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Not really.

Try designing any thing functional with perception only. It'll not work.

You need the data, not perceptual interpretation of the data to actually design things that have to do a job.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
Not really.

Try designing any thing functional with perception only. It'll not work.

You need the data, not perceptual interpretation of the data to actually design things that have to do a job.

Chris
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I think mr toy means in terms of picking and listening to hifi and he is correct .

why do I need you need to understand how a piece of equipment works to decide if I like it ?
 
merlin said:
Have to strongly disagree with that I'm afraid.

Any competent loudspeaker with have a fairly linear FR of +/-2db over it's working range.

The room will often result in frequency response aberrations of three to five times that and will therefore be the main arbiter of tonal balance and perceived detail retrieval - particularly when you take into account that in most cases over 70% of what you hear comes via the rooms walls and ceiling - not direct from the speaker.

A suck out in the mid to upper bass, often brought about by the first and second nodes of two room dimensions coinciding can make even a 15" Tannoy sound anemic. A speaker that rolls of at 45 hz will sound superb in a room that's 14' x 20' but will be troublesome in one that's say 11' x 13'.

If you know the maths, and the area you are likely to be putting your speakers, it's pretty easy to read specs and judge whether a particular model will be suited to the room. If you are computer literate you can use CARA of course.

But the room is crucial to tonal quality as that is the result of frequency extension, distortion components and spectral balance, and not IME, of pixie dust or drive unit material (although the latter is tied to the distortion components).
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I disagree.

Room related frequency response aberrations are significant, but here's the thing. I can continue to recognise different voices as they move from room to room. This isn't just a contiguous thing (that my brain adapts to their voice in room as I hear it move from room to room) - I can hear someone's voice in another room and recognise it with no prior experience of that person's voice in that room. In extreme cases I may not be able to hear what they are saying articulately (if, say, the reverberation in the room was extremely long and powerful), but I'd still be able to recognise the individual voices.

If the changes in room dynamics were so impassable, this should be impossible. Their voices will be shaped and influenced fairly heavily by the room in which they are speaking and its treatment, but their fundamental 'character' remans extant. The same applies to musical instruments (both live and recorded), animal sounds, kettles boiling, washing machines spin drying, the sound of typing, etc, etc.

Why would loudspeakers be an exception to this?
 
To be fair, if your motivation for discussing this topic is an interest in the behaviour of processors and electronic systems in general, then 'the understanding' would be prime.

But if your desire for knowledge doesn't extend to studying 'the experience', you'll only half-understand the subject.

Mmmm. Gnomic.
 
Mescalito said:
Not really.

Try designing any thing functional with perception only. It'll not work.

You need the data, not perceptual interpretation of the data to actually design things that have to do a job.

Chris
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I will happily leave the design side of things to those much more capable than me. I'm the diner not the chef.
 
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