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What funny speakers you have!

I am interested in anything that will improve performance and consistancy both from a business and as a hobby. I fully understand that most people cannot afford the systems and solutions that I recommend but would hope that it would still be of interest to people. As I've said, I like sports cars and cant afford one but I still like Top Gear. I cant understand the problem with me talking about expensive hifis.

My main bug bare with hifi systems is that the ignore the tremendous impact that the room has on them. As a result many "audiophile" systems use speakers with no decent bass response which in my opinion makes the whole system seriously lacking.

Whatever system you use some room treatment with soft furnishings and moving furniture will help. Beyond this people could try measuring the in room response and using a an inexpensive parmaetric EQ feeding a separate sub to improve performance.

I simply think that the accepted formulae of buying ever more expensive hifi kit doesnt produce the results it should and people should look for more scientific approaches to improving the accuracy of their audio systems.
 
I simply think that the accepted formulae of buying ever more expensive hifi kit doesnt produce the results it should and people should look for more scientific approaches to improving the accuracy of their audio systems.
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The range of XTZ speaker run DSP and you can run them part active with the DSP (no amplifiers included)

99.26 P on W 10 subs seem like a good way to build a full range speaker system.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0209/xtz_sub_amp1_dsp.htm

W9926%20on%209917sub.jpg



Id sacrifice some accuracy for musical involvement any day.
Here's a scientific approach and a formula, buy the best speakers you can afford that match your room. Buy a VDAC, and an amp that doesn't clip into the speaker youve chosen and has low distortion, job done!;)
 
Rob Sinden said:
I simply think that the accepted formulae of buying ever more expensive hifi kit doesnt produce the results it should and people should look for more scientific approaches to improving the accuracy of their audio systems.
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Absolutely.

At a very basic level getting decent sound *into* your living room isn't a hard problem. I set of reasonable studio monitors with a reasonable CD player will get you there for <£2k.

The fun starts when you realise that getting all the energy into the room is only the start of the battle - controlling what reaches your ears so that the response isn't lumpy and ill-defined is the real challenge. If you ignore this aspect, getting better speakers/amps isn't really going to help the main problem.

Systems that take the room out of the equation (headphones or nearfield monitors) are even better value. Most systems can be used this way, but some are better, dual concentric for example. Not everyone wants to listen this way however.

Cesare
 
Saying your speakers will match your room is like saying my jeans will fit you because we are the same height.

If you measured the response of a superb speaker in a good room there will typically be variations of 15db from its intended performance. This is a huge variation that means that some notes will be 3 or 4 times louder than others. Just because most people get used to this sound and like it, it doesn't make it right.

As an approach for someone that just wants to enjoy their music that's fine. But if you really want to hear the music as it was intended, your systems performance will need measuring and correcting to fit the space.

I listen with my ears but the only reason I can think that people who are really critical aboute audio accuracy wouldnt want to measure their systems performance is because they know it wont be good.
 
Rob Sinden said:
I listen with my ears but the only reason I can think that people who are really critical aboute audio accuracy wouldnt want to measure their systems performance is because they know it wont be good.
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No, I think it's because experience tells them that measuring and applying room 'correction' makes things sound worse - even if they 'measure'* better.

* measurements don't necessarily reflect how the system/room behaves with actual music.
 
I'm never surprised by the bad choices people make in putting the wrong speaker at all price ranges into the wrong room.

But your assertion that just because people get used to mismatch doesn't make it right, doesn't hold water. If they are satisfied with it, it's right, measurements don't matter.

Enjoying music reproduction in your house isn't about achieving high-fidelity to the source, hifi is just a term dreamt up years ago that has come to be generally misused to mean any music playback system of perceived quality.

If we all truly wanted high-fidelity we'd be measuring everything. People want enjoyment.
 
muz640 said:
Thanks, i'll admit ive never heard a system that can produce the acoustic or emotion of music played in St Martin:eek:

Where are Ultimate audio?
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Jeremy Marchant said:
Linn LP12 SE, Naim NAC552, Adam Tensor Alphas. Thanks to Norman and Ian at Ultimate.
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Durmbo said:
Every competent speaker knows its brass from its oboe. Mine keep me grooving for considerably less than £4k. :)
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guys if my system cost around £50K as Jeremy’s does, i'd want it to sound as real as the real thing. i look for this aspect in all my systems. I know it’s a very difficult thing to achieve regardless of budget but when you can throw a considerable amount of dosh at it, it does help and it will sound more realistic as its of a higher quality, size, build and technology.
Jeremy’s system and the experience he mentions prove this point well.
 
I think the main reason that people dont measure systems is because the established names in audio have no way of correcting a problem they would be highlighting if people were so audacious as to expert their very expensive hifis to be accurate.

The hifi establishment are so invested in analogue hifi equipment - a format that makes applying room correction very difficult without adding noise etc - that this isnt likely to change anytime soon.

I dont know where you got the impression that accuracy and musical enjoyment are mutually exclusive? Personally I find music much more enjoyable where it is less influenced by the equipment that is replaying it and the impact of the rooms acoustics.
 
Rob Sinden said:
I think the main reason that people dont measure systems is because the established names in audio have no way of correcting a problem they would be highlighting if people were so audacious as to expert their very expensive hifis to be accurate.

The hifi establishment are so invested in analogue hifi equipment - a format that makes applying room correction very difficult without adding noise etc - that this isnt likely to change anytime soon.

I dont know where you got the impression that accuracy and musical enjoyment are mutually exclusive? Personally I find music much more enjoyable where it is less influenced by the equipment that is replaying it and the impact of the rooms acoustics.
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rob, that was one of my opening questions in the 'Class D amps' thread. if new energy directives make class A and B redundant then PWM and all its advances really will be the future.
 
Rob Sinden said:
I think the main reason that people dont measure systems is because the established names in audio have no way of correcting a problem they would be highlighting if people were so audacious as to expert their very expensive hifis to be accurate.

The hifi establishment are so invested in analogue hifi equipment - a format that makes applying room correction very difficult without adding noise etc - that this isnt likely to change anytime soon.

I dont know where you got the impression that accuracy and musical enjoyment are mutually exclusive? Personally I find music much more enjoyable where it is less influenced by the equipment that is replaying it and the impact of the rooms acoustics.
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Perhaps you should run a poll to see if what you think is right, actually is. I'd warrant people don't measure because they simply don't care, unless they are suffering from gross errors in which case they probably swap gear or look to none-signal-invasive fixes. After all if the error stems from the room then the best thing to fix is the room, rather than messing about with the signal to approximate a fix which always leaves some form of tell tale.

You would think that studios with their all digital pipelines would be ripe for this form of digital correction, but they still seem to rely on old fashioned room treatments and exacting studio-acoustic-design in the first place. I wonder why that is?
 
r-tee said:
guys if my system cost around £50K as Jeremy’s does, i'd want it to sound as real as the real thing. i look for this aspect in all my systems. I know it’s a very difficult thing to achieve regardless of budget but when you can throw a considerable amount of dosh at it, it does help and it will sound more realistic as its of a higher quality, size, build and technology.
Jeremy’s system and the experience he mentions prove this point well.
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Well i want to hear it myself, if it does sound close i'll be amazed tbh!

Where is Ultimate audio?
 
not yet, its getting sorted though. next week and ill have both the TDAI and a CD1. can't wait, it seams to have taken an age, but my SN sold today..so funds are now clear :D.
 
no i'd like to, but £6K puts me off quite allot. :) and if i like it then i'd have to find the funds...:D. to be honest at that price, sub+arcs = £9K. id rather change to big pair of floorstanders like the WB ACT60's or the Lyngdorf MH-1's both do around 30Hz flat so either would be more than fine. the ACT60's are £10K the MH-1's £6K.
 
I didnt realise it was that much! if youve got corners you could build your own corner subs same as the lyngdorf ones, or get someone to build them for you, plans are on Yahoo groups, just need a cheap power amp to power the corner subs, Voilà 2+2! full range

In fact plans for both single driver(BW1) and corner woofers are on there.
 
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