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weiss dac 202

Purite Audio said:
A 'worth having if possible' edge.
Keith.
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So subtle but worthwhile? This is obviously in many ways a silly question but if someone didn't have a firewire connection on a mac then what would you say it was worth spending to upgrade it purely for the sake of the SQ?

Edit: in the context of a 4K DAC of course!
 
Thanx. Would love to hear the weiss. I like my BM but if the weiss crapped all over it then it must be pretty good (and I guess it should given the price). Still waiting to hear the zodiac though. Seen that they're finally shipping but at a price hike (up to €2900) which puts out of the just buy one and take a chance category for me.
 
Lets be honest even the best dacs should not cost more than c£1500, anything more is taking the piss in my opinion.
 
Avonessence said:
Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply. It is something worth looking into this Weiss202, based on your experiences.
Is there anything that you have found it is better at, or deficient at, in comparison to CDP replay?
Have you any pointers with regard to software and output from a PC/Mac into a DAC?

BR

Avonessence
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Hi Avon.

Have you thought about trying the DAC of your Rega Isis via it's USB socket? I know it can't handle hi-res files but worth a try on some uncompressed 16/44 WAV files after all it's £6k worth of player, so the DAC section should be a pretty decent bit of kit.
 
spacey said:
Is the Isis USB input not 24/96?
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The DAC is limited to 16/44 but then it was only ever meant for CD replay which is does pretty well. Actually, it's bloody brilliant! Pity i don't have the readies for one. :(

Maybe one day...
 
Looking at the inside of the Weiss, it certainly looks very well put together. It's really not a good idea to cram lots of components into a small box anyway; but it's not the best thing to have the mains transformer in there either.

One of the difficulties DAC manufacturers face is that the design has to be compromised to suit the needs of a range of customers. The Weiss (along with the Lavry and probably quite a few other DACs) includes in its small box a headphone amp, mains transformer (because we don't want messy separate power supllies), muting on its analogue output (so we don't get nasty noises when switching on & off) plus the electronics for each different input type, variable output levels etc. etc. Each of which can adversely affect sound quality.

Having recently gone through the exercise of building a DAC from a kit & subsequently modifying it extensively(sometimes for the worse!) I've learned a lot from some very clever folks on this and other DIY Forums and ended up with a very good sounding DAC. Stripping out superfluous bits of electronics improves sound quality. Converting from Op-Amps to transformers on the analogue output makes a huge difference, but it's expensive to do - Op-amps are a few quid, good audio transformers over £100 a pair.

But all this means diddly-squat really - it's all down to sound quality and if the £4K Weiss sounds excellent (and I trust Steve S1's opinion) then IMO it's good value because getting such quality is not easy nor cheap to achieve. Sure, a stripped-down version might well sound even better & I'm sure we'll see these in the future.
 
spacey said:
And a £20k Rolex still only tells the time
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Yep and an iPod plays music. Same as a £50k system. :D

Seriously, the value equation is up to each individual. But 'perceived value' in the form of bulking out products when you are actually interested in the sonics appears naive to me. There are plenty of folk who equate Pubs, MacDonalds or Steak Houses with good value, especially if they pile the food on their plate. Or you can enjoy a meal that's had some thought and skill put into it and pay more. Either way, the choice depends on your taste and what you are prepared to pay. T'was ever thus.

Whenever I see a comment like "this shouldn't cost more than x or y". I wait with baited breath for the commentator's rival product of similar performance to take the market by storm - it's usually a long wait. :D

Hi Tony btw, been following your DIY trail (or should that be trial?) with great interest.

Best regards,

Steve
 
muzzer said:
Yeah.
Nice dac the TeddyDac, some nice ideas in there.
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It's a nice DAC priced appropriate to it's performance. Compared with a DAC2 recently at Jez's place and both preferred the Weiss by enough of a margin to justify the additional cost of the DAC2. Choice is what it's all about.
 
SteveS1 said:
Yep and an iPod plays music. Same as a £50k system. :D

Seriously, the value equation is up to each individual. But 'perceived value' in the form of bulking out products when you are actually interested in the sonics appears naive to me. There are plenty of folk who equate Pubs, MacDonalds or Steak Houses with good value, especially if they pile the food on their plate. Or you can enjoy a meal that's had some thought and skill put into it and pay more. Either way, the choice depends on your taste and what you are prepared to pay. T'was ever thus.

Whenever I see a comment like "this shouldn't cost more than x or y". I wait with baited breath for the commentator's rival product of similar performance to take the market by storm - it's usually a long wait. :D

Hi Tony btw, been following your DIY trail (or should that be trial?) with great interest.

Best regards,

Steve
Click to expand...


Nicely put. One thing I consider odd is that some people seem to not bat an eyelid at a cdp costing 5k but perceive a 4k dac to be OTT. Maybe it's cos they are smaller???
 
Suffolk Tony said:
Looking at the inside of the Weiss, it certainly looks very well put together. It's really not a good idea to cram lots of components into a small box anyway; but it's not the best thing to have the mains transformer in there either.

One of the difficulties DAC manufacturers face is that the design has to be compromised to suit the needs of a range of customers. The Weiss (along with the Lavry and probably quite a few other DACs) includes in its small box a headphone amp, mains transformer (because we don't want messy separate power supllies), muting on its analogue output (so we don't get nasty noises when switching on & off) plus the electronics for each different input type, variable output levels etc. etc. Each of which can adversely affect sound quality.

Having recently gone through the exercise of building a DAC from a kit & subsequently modifying it extensively(sometimes for the worse!) I've learned a lot from some very clever folks on this and other DIY Forums and ended up with a very good sounding DAC. Stripping out superfluous bits of electronics improves sound quality. Converting from Op-Amps to transformers on the analogue output makes a huge difference, but it's expensive to do - Op-amps are a few quid, good audio transformers over £100 a pair.

But all this means diddly-squat really - it's all down to sound quality and if the £4K Weiss sounds excellent (and I trust Steve S1's opinion) then IMO it's good value because getting such quality is not easy nor cheap to achieve. Sure, a stripped-down version might well sound even better & I'm sure we'll see these in the future.
Click to expand...

Tony,

I agree with a lot of your points, however, not on the one that op-amps have to sound bad, surely it is more the case of less than optimum implementation? We all need to remember that most of the music we listen to has been through dozens of NE5532 $1 type opamps in mixing desks, ADC's etc. When impelementation is poor, such as opertating outside the design ranges of the opamp, feeding RF gunk, poor power etc, output will of course be compromised.

Regards
 
Interzone said:
Nicely put. One thing I consider odd is that some people seem to not bat an eyelid at a cdp costing 5k but perceive a 4k dac to be OTT. Maybe it's cos they are smaller???
Click to expand...

Isn't that why the Naim DAC is a two box affair to get the best out of it? You can see what a lot of weight you can get for £4K or is it just because it is based on old yesteryear technology?

Ditto the Naim preamps two big boxes yet the diminuative Grad1/TPX1 preamp is better than a NAC52/Supercap at a quarter of the space.

Then my Brinkmann phono/preamp is tiny for £2K yet compares well with a much bigger TE Groove+ at around twice the space/price.

I think a 202 would be at home with my small yet expensive kit.

Cheers,

DV
 
MartinC said:
Tony,

I agree with a lot of your points, however, not on the one that op-amps have to sound bad, surely it is more the case of less than optimum implementation? We all need to remember that most of the music we listen to has been through dozens of NE5532 $1 type opamps in mixing desks, ADC's etc. When impelementation is poor, such as opertating outside the design ranges of the opamp, feeding RF gunk, poor power etc, output will of course be compromised.

Regards
Click to expand...

I agree Martin, implementation is everything in this game. I don't actually say Op-amps are poor by the way; it's unfeasible to go to the expense of transformers in every case and this configuration's only applicable to my particular chip.

I've built two of these DACs and the Mk.1 version uses improved Op-Amps, which again was a very worthwhile upgrade to the basic design.
 
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