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We are basically pissing in the wind

It has been ignored and minimised twice, now three times.

Apparently, the way electricity is generated is core to the debate ... remember? The coal power stations? You can't have it both ways. Are power generation methods relevant or not?
 
I'm in favour of nuclear power, especially thorium reactors or hopefully fusion one day.

The Slovaks and the French have got this one right. The Germans have gone all paranoid regarding nuclear power and earthquakes despite being in the middle of a tectonic plate.

This is what happens with some where the environment is concerned, logic goes out of the window.
 
My concern with Cap And Trade is that it will do little to improve the environment, but will set up a new exchange for billionaires to speculate.
 
JADISMAN said:
Now that really is going too far!:mad:
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It was just a joke, if God didn't want us to have class A amplifiers he wouldn't have made 8% of the deaths crust out of heatsink material and 27% of it out of material to make amplifying devices.
 
Steven Toy said:
I'm in favour of nuclear power, especially thorium reactors or hopefully fusion one day.

The Slovaks and the French have got this one right. The Germans have gone all paranoid regarding nuclear power and earthquakes despite being in the middle of a tectonic plate.

This is what happens with some where the environment is concerned, logic goes out of the window.
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So how many commercially viable thorium reactors are they?
 
Steven Toy said:
I'm in favour of nuclear power, especially thorium reactors or hopefully fusion one day.

The Slovaks and the French have got this one right. The Germans have gone all paranoid regarding nuclear power and earthquakes despite being in the middle of a tectonic plate.This is what happens with some where the environment is concerned, logic goes out of the window.
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Its even worse than that.

As a direct consequence of Germany's clean energy drive, and the need for fossil fuel backup, the share of German electricity generated from environmentaly dirty brown coal, or lignite, rose 6.5% year-on-year in 2013, equivalent to 25% of total electricity production, the highest level since 1990.

The use of hard coal also increased to 25% of total energy production.

Germany also imports significant quantities of nuclear power from France.


http://www.dw.de/germanys-clean-energy-drive-fails-to-curb-dirty-coal-power/a-17345796

Some of us are indeed pissing in the wind.
 
The climate problem is a medium term threat.

World peak oil is a very near term threat that will throw our economies into chaos.
 
Steven,

This is what happens with some where the environment is concerned, logic goes out of the window.
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Tell me about it!

Some think people live in a hermetically sealed bubble, divorced from the natural world. Others seem to think that the world of commerce and finance is the real world, even though it's a recent human construct. A 4.6 billion-year-old planet on which life originated about 4 billion years ago, yet somehow Wall Street is considered to be the real world.

Wanna see the real world? Go to a forest or a grassland or a coral reef or a...

Joe
 
Joe P said:
Steven,


Tell me about it!

Some think people live in a hermetically sealed bubble, divorced from the natural world. Others seem to think that the world of commerce and finance is the real world, even though it's a recent human construct. A 4.6 billion-year-old planet on which life originated about 4 billion years ago, yet somehow Wall Street is considered to be the real world.

Wanna see the real world? Go to a forest or a grassland or a coral reef or a...

Joe
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I live a mile from a forest.

My back and front gardens are grasslands because I don't cut them very often.

Also there are two bloody great big sycamore trees right outside my house. Despite the fact that they drop helicopters and sap all over my car, I love 'em.

One of my big concerns is deforestation caused by house building to accommodate a rising population.
 
rough edges said:
The climate problem is a medium term threat.

World peak oil is a very near term threat that will throw our economies into chaos.
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This is why we need to max out on research, development and investment into renewables including nuclear and nuclear fusion.
 
Joe P said:
Steven,


And cattle ranching, so we can has chezburgers.

But it's always someone else's fault, eh?

Joe
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I like eating beef but it has to be locally-sourced. Our cows and bulls graze on flood plains between the trees. I also like Limousin beef. If you look at the Limousin on Google Earth you will see that it is mainly woodland interspersed with pasture fields for cattle and sheep grazing. All beef in McDonalds in the UK is UK-sourced.
 
darrenyeats said:
Cheer up guys, 22% of electrical generation capacity and 20% of actual generation in 2014 is green. And best of all, these measures are GROWING at their fastest rate EVER!

Good news.
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Does that include nuclear?

This minute in the UK wind is supplying 1.2% and biomass 2.8% of current demand. And I'm not at all sure we can include biomass in the list of good things....

In the meantime,

co2_trend_mlo.png


Not much sign of global downturn there.

Paul
 
Joe P said:
Steven,


And cattle ranching, so we can has chezburgers.

But it's always someone else's fault, eh?

Joe
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Deforestation in Brazil has angered me for years. We should have gone as far as threatening military action or at least sanctions against Brazil for this. I guess the problem is one of corruption.
 
Steven Toy said:
Deforestation in Brazil has angered me for years. We should have gone as far as threatening military action or at least sanctions against Brazil for this. I guess the problem is one of corruption.
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Are you joking ? The UK cleared most of it's trees for farming and you want to bomb Brazil ????????????
 
Steve,

If you cared about the environment, you would at least consider the option of reducing your beef consumption. But you like eating beef and eschew tokenism (and besides it's the fault of those fukcing fukcers who breed by fukcing), so you won't.

Omm nom nom nom...

This is why people are reluctant to engage with you on this topic. If it involves any sacrifice on your part you aren't interested.

Joe
 
Joe P said:
Steve,

If you cared about the environment, you would at least consider the option of reducing your beef consumption. But you like eating beef and eschew tokenism (and besides it's the fault of those fukcing fukcers who breed by fukcing), so you won't.

Omm nom nom nom...

This is why people are reluctant to engage with you on this topic. If it involves any sacrifice on your part you aren't interested.

Joe
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I happen to think that this can be done without personal sacrifice although I don't think I am as selfish as Chris in this respect. I don't eat a huge amount of beef anyway as I prefer swine. I also like fish rather a lot and I choose fish from sustainable sources when it's available.

The biggest reason why I don't go for grand gestures of personal sacrifice is because to me this is more focussed on process than on outcome. I am interested in outcomes.

I also think that personal sacrifice, if widely adopted and that's a big if... could actually be counter-productive as it serves only to slow down the economic momentum required to develop renewable energy sources and by that I mean the ones that may be limitless.

I take your point on reducing intake of animal flesh though, especially beef. I am aware of the one-tenth rule. I also think that through education and healthcare we may be able to have our beef and eat it if we could arrest global population growth.

If 2050 is when the projected peak population will occur we will be looking at 11 to 12 billion living souls by then. If that's the case CO2 levels are going to rocket because only industrialisation is going to support that kind of level of population.
 
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