ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Nobody is telling them they must have a two state solution. That‘s the problem.
War declared, Israel v Palestine...
- Thread starter Darmok
- Start date
gavreid
Pretty Words...
More Palestinians detained than released during truce
The Palestinian Prisoner’s Society says Israeli forces have detained 168 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank since the start of the truce on Friday.
During the same period, 150 Palestinians have been released by Israel since Friday as part of the agreement.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Al Jazeera’s Sidebar speaks to veteran Israeli journalist Gideon Levy about Israeli public opinion of Palestinians and how it has resulted in the lack of internal criticism towards Israeli war crimes.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Speaking of the Israeli attitude, both in the horrible government it has now and among Israelis in general, would it be OK to post a link to the speech that Michal Cotler-Wulsh, one of Israel's representatives at the UN, made a few days ago? It is a speech that attacks the wave of antisemitism that exploded in many places right after the Oct. 7 massacre.
I was about to post it, seeing that there are innumerable post on this thread with links representing the Palestinian point of view, then I didn't, afraid that you might take it amiss.
Tony L
Administrator
Feel free, though I will caveat it with the request people view it in the light that Cotler-Wunsh (Wikipedia) appears to be a Zionist extremist who currently represents the Israel Resistance Party (Wikipedia). The slogan of the Israel Resistance Party is ‘Israel Before Everything’. Folk can make of that what they wish, along with your motivations in wishing to post such content here.
I will also link to an article on the Israel Resistance Party‘s leader, Benny Gantz, that contains the following quote:
”His campaign has sought to play up that 2014 conflict, releasing a series of videos celebrating the number of “terrorists” killed under his command and boasting about bombing Gaza back into the stone age.”
Benny Gantz wants to unite Israel. But is his vision too vanilla?
Ex-general has six days left to convince voters as he bids to usher in a new era in Israeli politics and the Middle East
www.middleeasteye.net
gavreid
Pretty Words...
More than 46,000 homes destroyed in Gaza: UN
Across the Gaza Strip, more than 234,000 housing units have also been damaged, the UN interagency group says in a new report.These constitute more than 60 percent of the housing stock in the tiny coastal enclave.
In Gaza City and North Gaza specifically, extensive bombardment has resulted in damage to more than 50 percent of all buildings, “alongside widespread damage to roads and essential infrastructure such as power systems and distribution networks, and water storage tanks, pipes, supply networks and drainage channels”, the report said.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Al-Qassam Brigades warn against Israeli ‘violations’ to truce
Hamas’s armed wing says its fighters are committed to the humanitarian truce brokered by Qatar and Egypt “as long as the enemy has committed to it, and we call on the mediators to pressure the occupation to adhere to all the terms of the truce on the ground and in the air”.The group said that its fighters “dealt with” an Israeli violation earlier today in the northern Gaza Strip, but did not elaborate further.
Tony L
Administrator
“Please join #Together4Humanity on Sunday at 3pm for a vigil opposite Downing Street - to stand against antisemitism and anti-Muslim hate, mourn innocent lives lost in Israel & Palestine & share a message of unity. No flags, no placards, just people. http://togetherforhumanity.co.uk”
Brendan Cox.
Agreed as long as attempted murder doesn't include juveniles throwing rocks at heavily armed soldiers and equal rules are applied to West Bank settlers as to Palestinians.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Hello Tony.Feel free, though I will caveat it with the request people view it in the light that Cotler-Wunsh (Wikipedia) appears to be a Zionist extremist who currently represents the Israel Resistance Party (Wikipedia). The slogan of the Israel Resistance Party is ‘Israel Before Everything’. Folk can make of that what they wish, along with your motivations in wishing to post such content here.
I will also link to an article on the Israel Resistance Party‘s leader, Benny Gantz, that contains the following quote:
”His campaign has sought to play up that 2014 conflict, releasing a series of videos celebrating the number of “terrorists” killed under his command and boasting about bombing Gaza back into the stone age.”
Benny Gantz wants to unite Israel. But is his vision too vanilla?
Ex-general has six days left to convince voters as he bids to usher in a new era in Israeli politics and the Middle East
Cotler-Wunsch is absolutely not a Zionist "extremist." She was in Likud many years ago when Likud was a serious centre-right party, and Benny Gantz is also considered a moderate conservative, who ran against Netanyahu in elections.
The "Blue and White Alliance," which ran against Netanyahu in 2019 is thus described by Wikipedia:
Blue and White (Hebrew: כָּחוֹל לָבָן Kaḥol Lavan) is a centrist[4] and liberal[5] political alliance in Israel. It was established by the Israel Resilience Party, Yesh Atid and Telem to run in the April 2019 Knesset election,[6] in hopes of defeating Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Blue and White defines itself as a pluralistic alliance representing all citizens on the political and religious spectrums.[7] The phrase "blue and white" refers to the colors of the Israeli flag, and is colloquially used to describe something as being typically Israeli.[8]
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Jeremy Scahill: Israel's "Lethal Lie" About Al-Shifa Hospital as Hamas Base Was Co-Signed by Biden
The Intercept_'s Jeremy Scahill deconstructs Israel's narrative around Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital, including unsubstantiated allegations Hamas uses tunnels under the hospital as its command center — tunnels that Israel itself built. "We were told that this was like a Hamas Pentagon," says Scahill, who describes how the Israeli military's own evidence disproves its allegations that the hospital was dangerous enough to justify its siege and bombardment. The World Health Organization says Al-Shifa, Gaza's largest hospital, "is no longer functioning." The Israeli disinformation campaign against it was a "lethal lie," says Scahill. We also discuss the status of Palestinian prisoners who are now candidates for release in Israel and Hamas's ongoing hostage exchange.
The Intercept_'s Jeremy Scahill deconstructs Israel's narrative around Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital, including unsubstantiated allegations Hamas uses tunnels under the hospital as its command center — tunnels that Israel itself built. "We were told that this was like a Hamas Pentagon," says Scahill, who describes how the Israeli military's own evidence disproves its allegations that the hospital was dangerous enough to justify its siege and bombardment. The World Health Organization says Al-Shifa, Gaza's largest hospital, "is no longer functioning." The Israeli disinformation campaign against it was a "lethal lie," says Scahill. We also discuss the status of Palestinian prisoners who are now candidates for release in Israel and Hamas's ongoing hostage exchange.
mandryka
pfm Member
What do you make of this?
I can't find the text of the speech so it's hard for me to comment and be confident that I'm being fair. Just from listening casually, I couldn't hear any arguments at all -- she seemed to be just saying saying that if you don't condemn the Oct 7 atrocities without a but, then you're not good. So you can't say "Yes, what happened is bad but there's a backstory which explains why it happened. . . ." because if you do you're a bad person . . . . It just felt like an attempt to silence discussion.
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
It is important to keep in mind that hate is it's own reward. It reinforces itself, and punishes you if you fight it, all inside your own head.
Tony L
Administrator
I’ll watch it later (I’ve fixed the link).
I’ve consistently made the point throughout this thread that there is no mutual exclusivity to any of this.
The Hamas atrocities were horrific.
The Netanyahu/IDF atrocities are horrific.
The situation that has for so many decades led to the illegal apartheid containment and brutal oppression of the people of Gaza and the West Bank is horrific.
These statements are all true. There is no need for any complex Boolean logic here. They all stand alone or as a set. None contradicts or negates any other.
A powerful and impressive speech - thanks for posting this, Paul.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Yes, I think you are quite right. Her purpose was, indeed, to make clear the force of the trauma inflicted on her country on Oct.7. I don't think it was to silence discussion, but to present Israel's point of view. She is, after all, an Israeli envoy to the UN. There is no lack of other people, in the media and at the UN, who are presenting the backstory to Oct.7. Or even those trying to minimise Oct.7 by saying that some, but by all accounts very very few, of the 1200 victims were probably killed by "friendly fire."
So yes, she is definitely giving voice to her, Israel's, point of view to the exclusion of others. But there is no lack of people presenting the various anti-Israel points of view.
Fatmarley
"It appears my intelligence circuits have melted"
mandryka
pfm Member
Well maybe all anyone can do is present points of view. Israel‘s official POV seems to include the idea that 1K of Israelis slaughtered justifies 15K of Palestinians slaughtered - I think she should make it explicit so that we know what sort of values we are being asked to endorse.
(And that 6M Jews slaughtered justifies all that follows . . . But that’s for a different thread!)