ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I hope you’re not suggesting that it might be edited?
War declared, Israel v Palestine...
- Thread starter Darmok
- Start date
gavreid
Pretty Words...
UN experts call for investigations into war crimes, crimes against humanity
The experts have called for “prompt, transparent and independent” probes into events in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories on October 7 and thereafter.
“Independent investigators must be given the necessary resources, support and access required to conduct prompt, thorough and impartial investigations into crimes allegedly committed by all parties to the conflict,” the experts said in a statement, calling on Israel, the Palestinian Authority and the de facto authorities in Gaza to cooperate fully with investigations.
Morris Tidball-Binz, special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, and Alice Jill Edwards, special rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, signed the letter.
They urged the international community to ensure that all those responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity are promptly brought to justice.
“There is no statute of limitation for such crimes, and they fall under universal jurisdiction, which means that courts in any country can exercise their authority to prosecute those responsible, regardless of their nationality and the country where the crimes were committed,” they said.
Tony L
Administrator
Agreed. I won’t link to something unless I have some idea of the poster or it has been widely retweeted by people or entities I respect.
There is so much misinformation from all sides here. “Flooding the zone” as alt-right propagandist Steve Bannon would say.
notaclue
pfm Member
Which one? The video showing Hitler morphing into Netanyahu?
Something tells me that one might not be totally raw, unedited footage...The video posted above is clearly not from a (cloudy and cold) London yesterday. Though the group in it - the ultra-orthodox Neturei Karta - might well be the same as the ones who might have been abused yesterday (assuming such an incident did happen), as they are the ones from Stamford Hill who are usually out and about protesting against Israel.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
No, you got it.
You can tell by all the renowned racists on it, and that its favourably covered on the front page of the daily mail - who have backed fascist and racists since Cable St.
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ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I think the point is that anti semitism and Islamophobia come from a place of hatred that cares a great deal more about mobilising, othering and scapegoating a minority than it does who the hatred is directed against. There is no underlying racial rational, it is political.
The racists are emotional, physical and intellectual cowards, and Arabs are an easier target in the current political climate
PaulMB
pfm Member
I think what you say is true, but somehow does not tell the whole story. And each has its own and very different, and very complicated, roots.
Antisemitism means hostility towards, or suspicion of Jews, on a racial rather than religious basis. It does not belong only to the political right, but can belong to the centre and the left.
Islamophobia means "fear of Islam." And Islam is not just Arabs, it is in Pakistan, Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, Africa, etc.
If I pretend to be an average French citizen:
I might be hostile to Jews because I think they overcharge me at the local shop, or because they are not Christians like other "real" French people, or because I believe they control the world's financial systems. But I do not "fear" them.
But, after the Bataclan massacre, the Charlie Hebdo massacre, the lorries driven into crowds and a dozen other acts of violence in the name of Islam, I do "fear" Islam. I see Islam as an invasive and direct threat to my average, familiar middle class French world.
So, what do I do? I vote for Le Pen.
Tony L
Administrator
In a way, yes. To my eyes it very consciously attempts to associate the actions of Netanyahu’s far-right Zionism with the Jewish people. The march was flooded with Israeli national flags.
Racism covers a very broad set of definitions, one of which any attempt to associate or conflate traits or behaviours onto any racial group. Israel is not the Jewish people. The Jewish people are not Israel. To attempt to generalise, confuse, conflate, blur or smear the two together is clearly racism.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Wikipedia
Islamophobia is the fear of, hatred of, or prejudice against the religion of Islam or Muslims in general,[1][2][3] especially when seen as a geopolitical force or a source of terrorism.[4][5][6]
The scope and precise definition of the term Islamophobia, is the subject of debate. Some scholars consider it to be a form of xenophobia or racism, some consider Islamophobia and racism to be closely related or partially overlapping phenomena, while others dispute any relationship; primarily on the grounds that religion is not a race.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I’m sorry, I don’t always get sarcasm. Is that sarcasm? Or do you actually support Le Pen?
Seanm
pfm Member
I think it's probably different when it's done by the group in question but still, it is passing strange that this march against antisemitism saw so many attacks on Jews by the protestors themselves, and that the march was attended by so many prominent far right racists.
Fascinating too, the enthusiasm with which some gentiles attack certain types of Jew in the name of protesting antisemitism, and how they're encouraged by liberal media. I mean that does smack of antisemitism to me.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Good heavens, no!
I was putting myself inside the mind of hypothetical, normally conservative "average" Frenchman. And trying to show why he would vote for Le Pen. It really wasn't clear?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Apologies. Like I say, I don’t always get sarcasm.
I agree with your post, but the point I was trying to make was that the Tommy Robinson’s of this world have no interest in defining their hatred, let alone understanding it. The hate is a purpose on its own, who the target is, is irrelevant. Having a target is the point. Yesterday it was Jews. Today it is Arabs. Tomorrow it might be hi-fi enthusiasts.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I think you could also say that Netanyahu is not the nation of Israel.
No surprise that some British Jews, many of whom will know someone personally affected by the events of Oct 7th, chose to show their support for the people of Israel.
If there were placards saying GO BIBI! with an image of bombs falling on Gaza that would be offensive. The flag of Israel? No.
I understand where you're coming from but for myself, I just think telling British Jews that the flag of Israel, containing the Star of David, is insensitive or offensive is, in the context of the massacre of 1400 Jews, perhaps a little insensitive in itself.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
Saturday’s march for Palestine was, yet again, an impressive event with a large, coherent Jewish Bloc participating.
The Jewish Bloc was prominent on the march and thre wre a number significant contributions from Jewish speakers on the platform.
But worryingly, the next day a large march against “antisemitism”, but really against Palestine solidarity, took place which we also report on.
We post below:
He said the charity that organised the march, Campaign Against Anti-semitism (CAA), “has unceasingly demonised the marches of protest against Israel’s genocidal attack on Gaza.
“Its march today is in effect a march against Palestinian freedom, using Jewish safety as the pretext,” he added.
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk
The Jewish Bloc was prominent on the march and thre wre a number significant contributions from Jewish speakers on the platform.
But worryingly, the next day a large march against “antisemitism”, but really against Palestine solidarity, took place which we also report on.
We post below:
- A thought-provoking editorial in the Morning Star on the challenge this march poses for the left.
- A video of some of the speeches including contributions from Jenny Manson (Jewish Voice for Labour), Barnaby Raine (Black-Jewish Alliance) and Emily Stephenson (Na’amod).
- A further report in the Morning Star that makes it clear why pro-Palestinian Jews distanced themselves from the march against antisemitism (see also our earlier post here).
He said the charity that organised the march, Campaign Against Anti-semitism (CAA), “has unceasingly demonised the marches of protest against Israel’s genocidal attack on Gaza.
“Its march today is in effect a march against Palestinian freedom, using Jewish safety as the pretext,” he added.
A tale of two marches
Saturday’s march for Palestine was, yet again, an impressive event with a large, coherent Jewish Bloc participating. The Jewish Bloc…
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
UK Surgeon on C4 News now describing taking Israeli shrapnel out of a young girl with no anaesthetic, no adequate pain relief. Now Mark Regev given a platform to lie through his murderous teeth. Ban him from the UK.
mandryka
pfm Member
It's in the context of the massacre of 15,000 dead Palestinians.
No-body is objecting to marching with the star of David, by the way -- but when it's part of the flag of Israel waved aloft in a gesture of solidarity, it is tantamount to supporting the Natanyahu's massacre.