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Vinyl not sounding up to par...?

Cheers for all the responses guys – Much appreciated!

Just to give you a bit more info on the situation:

Yes - I have got the phono stage input set to Moving Coil – I may look daft & quite frankly can be sometimes but not in this case... :)

Pivot to spindle distance is 222mm as per Rega / Moth instructions.

The manual for the pre-amp only specifies 47KΩ input impedance.

The Ortophon Bronze specification states recommended input impedance to be 10Ω to 200Ω

I'm led to believe that 47KΩ an an arbitrary industry standard but I have no idea whether this is just for MM or both MM & MC – Please enlighten me on this.

Obviously there's a pretty huge difference between 200Ω & 47KΩ.

I can find no info on whether the MF steps down the impedance when switching to MC – If anyone knows wether it does please let me know.

I'm pretty au fait with impedance matching – having worked in the Space Industry all my life as a microwave engineering technician and realise how important this factor is.

Cartridge tracking weight is 2.3 grams – Bang on Ortopon's reccomended 'ideal'

Null points exactly match the arc defined by the Rega Baerwald protractor I have.

There is absolutely no lateral movement from the Gyrodec – even if I give it a fairly huge 'Bounce'.

I have no equipment available to even remotely accurately measure the azimuth.

But as all other parameters appear to check out I'm going to assume that this is OK too.

There are also two rather contentious issues – which to my mind are VTA & Run-in / Burn in times

Opinion on these two issues is fiercely debated (as you are almost certainly aware), & way beyond the scope of this thread.

However ...

As for to VPA – I can only refer you to the rather excellent article:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_e.html

Run in / Burn in times – I personally believe are an important factor because I believe my own ears & also that of my best friend + whist running in the Gyrodec I've not been amplifying it – Just putting the Prodigy's Music For The Jilted Generation on repeat & checking once a day (ish).

So there is no potential for my ears to adjust themselves to the sound I'm hearing.

The stand everything is mounted on is 40mm solid oak – made to my own specifications by a good friend who is a professional joiner. I can give the rack a right good thump & the Gyro doesn't bat an eyelid.

I'll add, by way of an aside, that I've played guitar for about 30 years & have been in many studio situations & know good from bad sounding set-ups. In short I trust my own ears & can tell the difference between a Les Paul & a Stratocaster or a transistor guitar amp compared to valve amp.

As for the 'Hodge-Podge' recommendation – I rang the local council this morning & they're delivering a skip tomorrow morning ;)

Thanks once again guys.
 
Fezziwig said:
The manual for the pre-amp only specifies 47KΩ input impedance.

The Ortophon Bronze specification states recommended input impedance to be 10Ω to 200Ω

I'm led to believe that 47KΩ an an arbitrary industry standard but I have no idea whether this is just for MM or both MM & MC – Please enlighten me on this.

Obviously there's a pretty huge difference between 200Ω & 47KΩ.

I can find no info on whether the MF steps down the impedance when switching to MC – If anyone knows wether it does please let me know.
Click to expand...

I doubt that a non-adjustable phono stage would load (low-output) MC's at 47kohms as I imagine very few cartridges would work with it. I think the loading that your pre has for MC carts is 100 ohms: http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.h...essage=&sort=score&sortOrder=DESC&forum=vinyl

So the loading should be pretty much spot on for the bronze, but it just isn't a very good phono stage. So I agree that trying some of the ones previously suggested is a good idea.

Br,
Teme
 
If the TT is set up fine, then it's a proper phono stage for you.

Now for the controversial bit.

SS or valve. Active MC stage or MM with SUT (step up transformer). You will find lots of opinions about whether to go for an active MC stage. I don't know of any valve phono stage with is all active without SUTs in the circuit.

Any sort of budget in mind? Cheap and cheerful would be a CA640. Next up maybe a Puresound P10/ Croft RIAA with a SUT or a World (Audio) Designs Phono 3 with PSU3. More money maybe an EAR 834. If you have lots of dosh, then sky's the limit - maybe a TRON Seven if you're feeling rich.

Oh, a top class phono stage makes an enormous difference!

Charlie
ww.charlie-chan.co.uk
 
Now if you're feeling really brave, then ditch your RB300/Ortofon Bronze and buy a Hadcock 228 and a Decca London cartridge (preferably an old FFSS MkIV or a MkV/VI rebuilt by John Wright with a Paratrace tip). You'll be in the front row of the gig!

That's where I am now with Art Blakey (with my Decca C4E/Hadcock 228). Fab!

Charlie
www.charlie-chan.co.uk
 
I have an Ortofon Rhondo Red, albeit on on lesser tt. Played it through my Yamaha integrated amp phono stage (both mm.and mc.) and it sounded poor .

Purchsed a Trichord Dino phonostage, sounded far superior. Then tried the Arkless 640 mod. and the improvement was even greater.

So I suspect your phono stage, give Jez (Arkless) a PM to borrow his loaner unit.
 
The preamp manual clearly specifies disparate gains for MM/MC, yet the same 47k impedance.
So that's one thing. Then again, optimising the load impedance will not make a night and day difference.

RB300 you said? Sure its arm pillar nut is not overtightened? Allegedly this deadens the sound. Fingertight should do.

As for assessing azimuth: http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/analogue_bites_e.html
 
Couldn't be something as simple as the dealer wiring the cart out of phase, could it? I think the pins on Ortofons are colour coded so all should be well but still worth checking before splashing out on a phono stage.
 
Not sure where you are at with this Fezziwig, i too have this combination and my findings are the same. Cd and digital sounds great through my Meridian GO6 and Logitech transporter. Using the phono stage in the preamp was less than stellar. I now use an external phonostage into an Aux input and whilst it is not as good as the cd version it is much better. I'm using a Jasmine lp2 with a Stanton 881's on the end of a Well tempered deck. Maybe the MF was built and voiced to sound great with digital and Vinyl was an afterthought...... My advice get an external phonostage, but i am sure you are there now?
 
As many have pointed out I suspect the phono stage, I had a similar feeling about vinyl vs CD when I first bought my Michell Orbe. I tried various affordable offboard phono stages and found that through some of them vinyl just dies. I gave Lehmann's original Black Cube a try and low and behold the difference was not subtle and vinyl came alive. I'm not plugging the Lehmann, just saying the pre-amp is probably where you are going to achieve he biggest leap in performance.
 
I'm puzzled by the specs for the phono section of your preamp here;

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/uploads/manuals/English/a308crpre.pdf

It suggests that the only setting for impedance is 47KOhm. It doesn't mention an MC impedance setting. If there isn't one, then that is the source of your problems.

I'm presuming you have a switch for MM or MC gain and you have chosen MC? Sorry to ask the obvious, but as far as I can see it there is no MC impedance option, which is bizarre if there is an MC gain option.
 
Groover said:
Couldn't be something as simple as the dealer wiring the cart out of phase, could it? I think the pins on Ortofons are colour coded so all should be well but still worth checking before splashing out on a phono stage.
Click to expand...

This is a good suggestion. Your description sounds like classic out-of-phase symptoms. Flat, thin, lifeless with no dynamics.

Check that first. If all OK with those little coloured wires try a decent (not necessarily expensive) dedicated phono stage.
 
Fezziwig said:
Just putting the Prodigy's Music For The Jilted Generation on repeat & checking once a day (ish).
Click to expand...

That LP is a superb showcase for what can be accomplished with digital mastering and dance music. It can sound stunning, the usual digital artefacts aside..

I don't have the CD copy.

It should (he says) sound incisive and punchy. It doesn't create that much of a sound stage but it should be quite thrilling.

That's on an ancient Thorens TD150 with a Goldring cartridge.

I'm not sure what you're listening for in your comparison and I think it may be important.

For a "true" or "truest" comparison you might be better off comparing something all-analog, like Bowie or Floyd, with CD.
 
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