advertisement


Vinyl not sounding up to par...?

F

Fezziwig

Member
Hi People - My first post...

I've just put together a seemingly good system - However the sound from my vinyl is not up to scratch

Cd sounds warm and quite frankly breathtaking - Big fat win!

I've wanted a Gyrodec since about 1987 & finally own one & I know how these should sound & quite frankly it just sounds thin & weedy when compared to CD (bare in mind that I have only had it for 10 days)

Cds of The Xx / Dead Can Dance / Massive Attack are absolutely the sound I've always wanted

But the vinyl is just sounding flat & I really don't think it should

Full System spec as follows - Does my cartridge just require a longer run in period? Or is the phono stage of my pre-amp just not man enough for the job? Or something else that I haven't considered???

Any thoughts welcome

Michell Gyrodec
Moth RB300 Tonearm
Ortophon Rondo Bronze Cartridge
Musical Fidelity A308CR
Quad II Classic Power amps
Chord Chameleon Interconnects
Chord Carnival Silver Spker Cable
Proac Dresponse D18 Speakers

Cheers guys
 
Hi, did you listen to it against CD before taking the plunge? CD can be very good and there is a lot of hype around vinyl at the moment. I only use vinyl in the main system so no axe to grind..
 
Hi - Thanks for the replies

A friend of mine (who I've unfortunately lost touch with), had a gyrodec which sounded amazing.

The CD player is a Marantz CD6004 which whilst pretty fine indeed shouldn't outshine it...?

I agree that vinyl is being hyped to death at the moment - It's down to personal preference which you choose to listen to - You can never be wrong by stating a preference - I love eating roast lamb but would rather go hungry than eat butternut squash ;)

The phono stage is in the pre-amp - which is a Musical Fidelity A308CR - (incidently the heaviest piece of stereo equipment I've ever experienced 20Kg)

Where should I go from here?
 
Who set up your TT and cartridge? Incorrect cartridge set-up could easily cause all your problems. For instance any one of the following could affect the quality of the sound

Incorrect spindle to pivot distance when mounting the arm

Arm pillar too high altering the VTA. Lifting the arm pillar causes the sound to thin and brighten. Dropping the arm pillar increases the bass, but can make the sound muffled. Getting this right is important.

Incorrect overhang of the cartridge and poor alignment of the cartridge in the headshell

If all of that is set up perfectly, then you will need to think about a separate phono stage. Integrated amplifiers will usually have a decent MM phono stage, but the MC part is often less than excellent.

Charlie
 
The deck, arm and cartridge really are decent pieces of kit, so if set up correctly they should sound great. I suspect that the phono stage is a bottleneck as Charlie above suggests.

This review also suggests that the internal phono stage of your pre isn't up to much (the review is for the integrated 308 but I assume the phono stage is the same as in your pre): http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/musicalfidelity_a308.htm

Br,
Teme
 
The turntable was set up by an extremely knowledgeable & very friendly guy from Harrow Audio. I don't have much doubt about the set up to be honest.

However I am beginning to doubt the built in phono stage's abilities - Thanks for that link Teme - I would have to totally agree with the reviewer.

So any recommendations for a separate stage will be considered...
 
topoxforddoc said:
Who set up your TT and cartridge? Incorrect cartridge set-up could easily cause all your problems. For instance any one of the following could affect the quality of the sound

Incorrect spindle to pivot distance when mounting the arm

Arm pillar too high altering the VTA. Lifting the arm pillar causes the sound to thin and brighten. Dropping the arm pillar increases the bass, but can make the sound muffled. Getting this right is important.

Incorrect overhang of the cartridge and poor alignment of the cartridge in the headshell

If all of that is set up perfectly, then you will need to think about a separate phono stage. Integrated amplifiers will usually have a decent MM phono stage, but the MC part is often less than excellent.

Charlie
Click to expand...
Good points here ;) also check the cartridge loading at the phono stage is correct for your cart should be stated on the cart document supplied, but looks like 50-100ohms is about right http://www.ortofon.com/products/cartridges/moving-coil/mc-rondo-series/mc-rondo-bronze

Check the tone arm and cart data base on Vinyl engine for the settings for your comination of Turntable / Tone / Cart, main thisngs are Pivot to spindle distance, Compliance of arm and Cart, overhang & Null points to check alignment and tracking force, VTA and Azymuth are also important so check.
http://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_database.php

Here is the set up procedure for the Gyro deck so double check everything is set correctly, bouncing free and level.
http://www.artech-electronics.com/us/download_files/Gyro SE Pictorial Instructions.pdf
http://www.angelfire.com/music5/michell_gyrodec/step_by_step/manual.html
Alan
 
Get yourself on the Arkless list to audition his modded 640 phono stage. ( It is a kind of postal 'pass the parcel) Then you will find out. If it was set up by a dealer it can't be miles out.
 
Are you totally sure the setup is correct?

Is the support fully stable, with not the least trace of rocking when you push on a corner?

Are the support and the various layers of the TT 100% level?

Is nothing rubbing against something else, such as the motor, the arm cable?

Does the belt travel correctly, fully level?

Push down on the spindle and release. Is the bounce of the subchassis free, and does it last many seconds?

Is VTA correct?
 
Any dealer that would recommend that hodge podge doesn't know what he's doing.

I would suggest going round a few people's houses to listen to a few systems and get a feel for what direction you want to go in.

I'd start again from scratch but there may be something that can be salvaged depending on what direction you want to go in.
 
Ok, so the amps and speakers sound great in your room with the CD player as a front end? In that case all those bits work together in your room in a way which is pleasing and musically satisfying.

Therefore the 'flaw' is somewhere between the vinyl and the pre-amp section of your amp. I would expect the TT/arm and cartridge combination to sound really good if correctly set up. Given that your TT/arm/cartridge were set up by someone from Harrow Audio - let's assume that they know what they are doing. Therefore, most obvious place to start is the phono-stage...

I would recommend you:
1. Check the loading on the phono-stage as recommended above (it can make a big difference) - check the manual for the amp or ring MF
2. Buy the most recent Cambridge Audio MC phono stage from the local branch of Richer Sounds. I believe they have a 7 day no quibble refund policy. In which case you can set it up and run it for 6 days and see what it does for the sound you are getting.

I'm not suggesting the CA the last word in phono-stages but you will be able to tell whether the internal phono-stage is holding everything back. This is a low/no cost option which will enable you to find out what's going on in the context of your system in your room (which works really well with CD).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
Great advice from Mark above. What you have may be a hotch-potch but if it works for you on CD, that's all that counts. The elements of the record deck are all good, they sit well together. An upmarket MM cart on a RB300 isn't out of place at all. It *may* be out of alignment bit it can't be as far out as all that. Yes, changes to arm height and geometry make a difference but not that much. It's actually rather hard to misalign a cartridge in terms of effective length to the extent where the geometry is measurably wrong, within the limits of accuracy provided by a measurement protractor. SME owners can try this - slide the arm to one end of the slot, and check it with your protractor. You'll be into maybe a degree or two misalignment at the inner null point. If you can set up a cart to within 1 degree with a conventional protractor, then you are doing well. My money is on either a phono stage fault or setup error, or a faulty cart. Faulty carts are more common than you would like, I've had 2, neither of them were especially cheap either. One was a Goldring with a badly mounted diamond, replaced FOC, the other a Denon 110 with a misaligned cantilever, replaced FOC after a little bit of argy bargy and some dealer bull***t. I'd therefore recommend - Step 1: try the Cambridge phono as above, Step 2, try another cart. If you happen to have another cart lying around, you can do that first.
 
If it's set up properly then it'll be the phono stage not up to the quality that you expect or are used to.

I went from a cambridge audio mc stage to a dynavector p75 and that made a huge difference - from flat and boring to dynamic and engrossing!
 
I thought the phono stages in these amps were supposed to be good? I'm betting on a set up problem or he likes CDs more than vinyl.
 
MVV said:
If it was set up by a dealer it can't be miles out.
Click to expand...

Not so, according to my own and a friend's experience. A dealer should have the knowledge, but not necessarily the commitment.

Nobody's mentioned that the cart. itself could be suspect if it was bought s/h. Somebody here had a Kontrapunkt recently which, after 2 pages of advice, was acknowledged to almost certainly be the knackered culprit.

If all is as should be with the front end, a poor or mismatched phono stage is, as has been mentioned, the suspected problem.
 
You have got the phono selector on the pre set to MC haven't you?
Ortofon give the output of the Rondo Bronze as 0.5mV
 
Do you know anyone from whom you could borrow a phono stage/pre amp or even a different turntable to try in your system for comparison?

If so that might be the easiest way to identify where the problem lies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top