advertisement


Valve amp power failures

rescuest3ve said:
Now, if I can find a class A SS with the same signature as an OTO, I think I'd be sorted!
Click to expand...

I have two 100 watt E.A.R. 509s (mk 2) which are now 40 years old. It has taken three services and a fair number of 509 valves (mainly in the first 7/8 years with other collateral damage) over nearly 11 years to become what I'd call 'reliable', so I think I may be winning. They had, in all fairness, had a rough life prior to me, where they'd been powered up 24/7 (the seller admitted afterwards). Hard to believe !

However, I'm seriously contemplating getting a class A strereo chassis or monoblocks as I want to keep my 912 pre. I'm torn between the cheaper option of Sugden (Masterclass power) or the much more expensive Vitus; both have similar power outputs and should, I hope, interface with my big Quad ESLs as well as my E.A.R.s do now, though I'm clueless about the electronic connectivity and synergy; esp. the latter.

Therefore this is an interesting thread for me, with some useful gems from Jez and others. Whereas the idea of a Krell 50 sounds interesting as a throwaway punt, I think I must decline that route for more modern counterparts.

My problem is that my present compatibility/synergy (amps and speakers) are prob. second to none for this combo, as the amps were designed around ESL 63s. I know there's a vast cost difference between my options, but it'd be my last amp. Is there anything else which has evaded my consideration?
 
The Luxman 590AX-II would be worth considering too. I’m really impressed with it.
 
Mike Reed said:
I have two 100 watt E.A.R. 509s (mk 2) which are now 40 years old. It has taken three services and a fair number of 509 valves (mainly in the first 7/8 years with other collateral damage) over nearly 11 years to become what I'd call 'reliable', so I think I may be winning. They had, in all fairness, had a rough life prior to me, where they'd been powered up 24/7 (the seller admitted afterwards). Hard to believe !

However, I'm seriously contemplating getting a class A strereo chassis or monoblocks as I want to keep my 912 pre. I'm torn between the cheaper option of Sugden (Masterclass power) or the much more expensive Vitus; both have similar power outputs and should, I hope, interface with my big Quad ESLs as well as my E.A.R.s do now, though I'm clueless about the electronic connectivity and synergy; esp. the latter.

Therefore this is an interesting thread for me, with some useful gems from Jez and others. Whereas the idea of a Krell 50 sounds interesting as a throwaway punt, I think I must decline that route for more modern counterparts.

My problem is that my present compatibility/synergy (amps and speakers) are prob. second to none for this combo, as the amps were designed around ESL 63s. I know there's a vast cost difference between my options, but it'd be my last amp. Is there anything else which has evaded my consideration?
Click to expand...

It might be worth experimenting with a Quad power amp - a serviced 306 or something of that ilk before spending big on a Sugden or Vitus, zero risk of losing any serious money on it if you don't like it. I've recently started to use a serviced 306 with the input sensitivity changed matched with a valve pre and it's very good for not much outlay, and still preserves much of the 'valve' character.
 
I remember EL/PL 509/519 from my colour TV repair days.
Those were notoriously unreliable because they were pushed so hard.
Each time one went it was a smoke, fire and smell festival.
The solid state BUX HT regulators that replaced them were a blessing – although they also went puff sometimes too !

A 306 is an excellent little amp, and a doddle to maintain. Give it a try indeed.
 
The Bish said:
I've recently started to use a serviced 306 with the input sensitivity changed matched with a valve pre and it's very good for not much outlay, and still preserves much of the 'valve' character.
Click to expand...

The valve pre and good solid state power is a great way of doing things. It is no accident the Audio Research pre and Krell power combos were game-changers in the early-80s, the combine the scale and natural realism of valves with astonishing grip and control. For best part of the past decade I’ve been running a lovely Verdier valve preamp into an obsessively restored Quad 303 and Monitor Golds, so the classic UK recording studio rig, but with a high-end valve pre upstream. It sounds great! I could afford to spend vastly more on a power amp if I wanted to, but there is just nothing missing with this combo so I leave it be. It is reliable, easy to maintain, and small signal valves last a stupidly long time so I’ve no issue running some expensive and collectable tubes in the preamp (long-plate Mullards etc). I’d only change if I migrated from the remarkably easy to drive Tannoys to something less efficient and more reactive, then I’d start looking at a Sugden Masterclass, rebuilt Krell or whatever. As ever it is all about system matching.

I’d not use a valve pre (or valves anywhere) if the system was also used for the TV or always on radio background, but in a typical audiophile music-only system it is a great choice.
 
chartz said:
I remember EL/PL 509/519 from my colour TV repair days.
Those were notoriously unreliable because they were pushed so hard.
Each time one went it was a smoke, fire and smell festival.
The solid state BUX HT regulators that replaced them were a blessing – although they also went puff sometimes too !

A 306 is an excellent little amp, and a doddle to maintain. Give it a try indeed.
Click to expand...

I was amazed at how reliable they could be! Not always, as you say... I've known then last 5 years plus in a colour TV in use for say 5 hours or more a day!
They must have been one of the most widely used valves, as in virtually all TV sets, and about the last valve to be in everyday use in the transistor era.
When SS took over, the function of line output device was about the last bastion of the valve (other than the CRT of course) and they were still used in otherwise all SS TV's until the mid 70's. The ubiquitous BU208 was the transistor that replaced the valve here.
 
Mike Reed said:
I have two 100 watt E.A.R. 509s (mk 2) which are now 40 years old. It has taken three services and a fair number of 509 valves (mainly in the first 7/8 years with other collateral damage) over nearly 11 years to become what I'd call 'reliable', so I think I may be winning. They had, in all fairness, had a rough life prior to me, where they'd been powered up 24/7 (the seller admitted afterwards). Hard to believe !

However, I'm seriously contemplating getting a class A strereo chassis or monoblocks as I want to keep my 912 pre. I'm torn between the cheaper option of Sugden (Masterclass power) or the much more expensive Vitus; both have similar power outputs and should, I hope, interface with my big Quad ESLs as well as my E.A.R.s do now, though I'm clueless about the electronic connectivity and synergy; esp. the latter.

Therefore this is an interesting thread for me, with some useful gems from Jez and others. Whereas the idea of a Krell 50 sounds interesting as a throwaway punt, I think I must decline that route for more modern counterparts.

My problem is that my present compatibility/synergy (amps and speakers) are prob. second to none for this combo, as the amps were designed around ESL 63s. I know there's a vast cost difference between my options, but it'd be my last amp. Is there anything else which has evaded my consideration?
Click to expand...

It's just as "modern" as a modern one and personally I would take it in preference to any of the oft mentioned class A amps on pfm without a moments thought.
 
I went through a few SS power amps with my AN speakers: Croft integrated, N-core (separate pre by now), Quad Artera, and now M2 clone.

Various pre's throughout that too: passive, SS, and now valve.

Bit convoluted and all good in their own way but sticking with this hand now.
 
SteveG said:
While my Audio Note Oto is a lovely sounding thing it hasn't been as reliable as the solid state amps I've had - so much so that it ended up being mothballed for quite a few years until I finally sent it back to Audio Note for a proper service. I keep a back-up amp to replace it whenever it does pack in though!
Click to expand...

It is just as well I do have spare amps as well because it would appear my Oto has blown up again. Turned it on to get a burning smell and some loud pops and bangs through the speakers. Bollocks - it's only about a year since it came back from a service at Audio Note as well. It's possible it's just valves but I've switched it out (and found a temporary use for my unloved Onix DNA-45) while I check it out.
 
Fretbuzz said:
I went through a few SS power amps with my AN speakers: Croft integrated, N-core (separate pre by now), Quad Artera, and now M2 clone.

Various pre's throughout that too: passive, SS, and now valve.

Bit convoluted and all good in their own way but sticking with this hand now.
Click to expand...

So what are you running at the mo? Are you happy with it?
 
SteveG said:
It is just as well I do have spare amps as well because it would appear my Oto has blown up again. Turned it on to get a burning smell and some loud pops and bangs through the speakers. Bollocks - it's only about a year since it came back from a service at Audio Note as well. It's possible it's just valves but I've switched it out (and found a temporary use for my unloved Onix DNA-45) while I check it out.
Click to expand...

See, this is what I'm getting sick of. Happened to my Oto, too. I did have a back-up Creek 4140 for a bit (fab little thing it was, too) that I might just have to get back, so every time the expensive amps decide to shit the bed again, I can get that back out of the attic
 
My used VTL valve power used to blow fuses and go through EL34's until I finally decided to get rid.

I now have a big SS power with valve pre and much happier.

Nice to be able to switch on without things going pop.
 
Mike Reed said:
I have two 100 watt E.A.R. 509s (mk 2) which are now 40 years old. It has taken three services and a fair number of 509 valves (mainly in the first 7/8 years with other collateral damage) over nearly 11 years to become what I'd call 'reliable', so I think I may be winning. They had, in all fairness, had a rough life prior to me, where they'd been powered up 24/7 (the seller admitted afterwards). Hard to believe !

However, I'm seriously contemplating getting a class A strereo chassis or monoblocks as I want to keep my 912 pre. I'm torn between the cheaper option of Sugden (Masterclass power) or the much more expensive Vitus; both have similar power outputs and should, I hope, interface with my big Quad ESLs as well as my E.A.R.s do now, though I'm clueless about the electronic connectivity and synergy; esp. the latter.

Therefore this is an interesting thread for me, with some useful gems from Jez and others. Whereas the idea of a Krell 50 sounds interesting as a throwaway punt, I think I must decline that route for more modern counterparts.

My problem is that my present compatibility/synergy (amps and speakers) are prob. second to none for this combo, as the amps were designed around ESL 63s. I know there's a vast cost difference between my options, but it'd be my last amp. Is there anything else which has evaded my consideration?
Click to expand...
A Krell ksa 50 is a throwaway? At the best part of £1k used, I wouldn't be throwing that away for anything.
 
My first job was TV repair, thats why I hate valves, nasty, hot, crackly, unrelyable, fragile.

Leaning over a Philips G6 with 20 valves and many dropper resistors adjusting the convergence on a hot day was hell.

Solid state was much more reliable but they still had comon faults, you knew what had gone even before you opened them up.

I was left in the workshop/shop to get on with the ones they couldn't fix on site, it was a case of get the manual out and see if I coud fix it.

Pete
 
Well built valve audio is reliable though. The number of truly ancient guitar amps, vintage radios and classic hi-fi amps still in regular service speaks volumes. I’m prepared to bet there will be perfectly serviceable and working 50s and 60s vintage Fender Tweeds, Princetons, Gibson Skylarks, Quad IIs, Leaks, McIntosh MC40s etc long, long after the last flat panel TV listed on Amazon or audio product in Richer Sounds today is in landfill. The problem to my eyes is a lot of modern audio just isn’t designed or built for a long service life. Transistor or valve I’m seeing little evidence much of it will last as well as these classics.
 
Accepting that 'all modern KT88' valves are crap, and accepting that I can no longer get my amp to a repair man, I am somewhat anxious about retaining my Graff 50 amp. Anything beyond changing valves and fuses is beyond me. This amp is just as successful driving Spendor D1s as my 300b was driving Audionote Js. Hence, I am not to keen on parting company with it. This amp uses 4 KT 88s and produces only 50WPC. To what extent does this decrease likelihood of valve failure taking out resistors? I have been using Electro Harmonix. NOS valves are out of my range.
 
stevec67 said:
A Krell ksa 50 is a throwaway? At the best part of £1k used, I wouldn't be throwing that away for anything.
Click to expand...

Ah! I'm surprised that these old lower Krell amps fetch that. Maybe collectors' items? 'Throwaway' was not literarily meant, but was still relative to Sugden Masterclass or (esp.) Vitus.
 
Tony L said:
The valve pre and good solid state power is a great way of doing things. It is no accident the Audio Research pre and Krell power combos were game-changers in the early-80s, the combine the scale and natural realism of valves with astonishing grip and control. For best part of the past decade I’ve been running a lovely Verdier valve preamp into an obsessively restored Quad 303 and Monitor Golds, so the classic UK recording studio rig, but with a high-end valve pre upstream. It sounds great! I could afford to spend vastly more on a power amp if I wanted to, but there is just nothing missing with this combo so I leave it be. It is reliable, easy to maintain, and small signal valves last a stupidly long time so I’ve no issue running some expensive and collectable tubes in the preamp (long-plate Mullards etc). I’d only change if I migrated from the remarkably easy to drive Tannoys to something less efficient and more reactive, then I’d start looking at a Sugden Masterclass, rebuilt Krell or whatever. As ever it is all about system matching.

I’d not use a valve pre (or valves anywhere) if the system was also used for the TV or always on radio background, but in a typical audiophile music-only system it is a great choice.
Click to expand...

Hi Tony,
Regarding the part about Valves and TV/Radio, just wondering why this is a potential problem? Apologies for the silly question!

I've got a second Amplifier- Sony 700ES- given to my by a passenger and friend at work, and I intend to use it for TV and Film duties with some Celestion Ditton 15 'speakers from the same people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top