USB Cable Poll: Redux

[ItemAudio]

C++ or C#?

C, then (as it was known then) C+ which nominally turned into C++ and all the other derivatives. This was back in the 80s when our company would have Stroustrup over for T. Sometimes T+

 

[Cav]

Materials, geometry, impedance, conductance, screening, dielectric, damping, conductors, jitter properties, etc. Same old same old, but with added power issues. Not that any of that necessarily proves they sound different, but it's one small point we shouldn't have to keep rehashing.

And if they do not sound different, why pay more for the same result?

 

[merlin]

In fact, I said earlier, it's hard to think of how else you might spend £50, or maybe £100, on an otherwise well-fettled system that can potentially make such a useful difference.

Music or a case of decent Rasteau

 

[ItemAudio]

Does it matter? A poorly implemented product performes badly anyway. Personally I have had no complaints with Windows 7 at home or at work that could not be tracked to flaky 3rd party software.

I wasn't deriding Windows so much as pointing out that because of those 3rd party real-world unpredicted issues (analogy alert), Windows is on a hiding to nothing: it's impossible for Windows to be as reliable as a more rigidly-controlled platform integrating hardware and software.

 

[ItemAudio]

And if they do not sound different, why pay more for the same result?

Indeed - that would be stupid.

 

[Chefren]

C+ was the first extension of C

That's new; c++ wasn't named c++ because there was a c+. It was named so because in c, c++ means "c plus one". See also c--.

The language ABCL/c+ created in 2008 has nothing to do with c or c++.

 

[Julf]

C, then (as it was known then) C+ which nominally turned into C++ and all the other derivatives. This was back in the 80s when our company would have Stroustrup over for T. Sometimes T+

Back in 1985 when Bjarne gave me (in Copenhagen) a tape with the 0.9 C++ translator (not compiler) he had renamed it "C++" from "C with Classes". There was no C+.

 

[Fox]

I have a problem with the word assess. You need to be totally clear what you mean by that word as it relates to unimaginably small changes a USB cable might bring, and how you can be sure the what assessment criteria is used is appropriate? Emotional ones? Measureable ones? The theory is stated, the results are claimed but the Methodology seems a bit fuzzy.

It does look more and more like one is going up a dark alley with digital cables. I've been up more dark alleys in hifi than well lot ones and now know it's generally dark for a reason.

I don't think this discussion is resolveable

 

[whatsnext]

That's new; c++ wasn't named c++ because there was a c+. It was named so because in c, c++ means "c plus one". See also c--.

The language ABCL/c+ created in 2008 has nothing to do with c or c++.

Way back when I was doing C it was C++ that Microsoft and others introduced. Still got the media and manuals in large boxes in a spare room.

 

[WAD62]

That's new; c++ wasn't named c++ because there was a c+. It was named so because in c, c++ means "c plus one". See also c--.

The language ABCL/c+ created in 2008 has nothing to do with c or c++.

...sorry there ar5e and elbow trouble, '85 was a long time ago

Likewise to Julf...I'll stick to data

 

[Plutox]

Badly written is as badly written does.

And you have access to the source code?

I would put it to you that, in the field of audio, W7 and up make a fair job of it – given the wide range of hardware and software used. However, the total lack of native Audio USB class 2 support is lamentable.

Apple appear to have made something of a balls-up of OSx audio over the last year or two – USB issues and the integer mode stop/go farce have left some users pulling their hair out.

Perhaps we had all better adopt some form of Linux.

 

[whatsnext]

The nebulosity of describing the musical experience on radio 3 is deliberate so it does not become impenetrable, it comes from grasping at inappropriate metaphors to describe an incomplete experience or experts dumbing down to the point of near- meaninglessness. Interpretation is very very tricky and depending on how much or little you know you can choose a point between describing it formally, structurally and within the known nomenclature where facts are facts and inarguable, or tackle the philosophical and emo issues only and find yourself teetering into pseud's corner.

You know, I'm not cynical enough to be postmodern, I wish I were but I cannot keep up the facade... my pony thing is not ironic but what happens when a person gets stripped back, drugged and parts of your brain short out and divert into directions it would not normally go either by discipline, drugs, dysfunction or damage. I have PTSD, I have various forms of damage and I have fat too much Glaxo SmithKline coursing through me most of the time.

Plus ponies are funner than music

Fox

Thanks for sharing about where you at. Your expressing yourself is far better than I might do if I tried so don't knock yourself too much.

I just enjoy music and have few words about it unlike your good self. Antithesis maybe.

 

[Ciunas Audio]

Reported subtle audible differences between digital cables is indeed due to the placebo effect, they are real only in the mind of the listener. We know that this MUST be the case because we know that the reported differences are simply not possible due to the technology being used.

I'm glad that this thread has now moved on to exploration of why people perceive these subtle audible differences, and not whether or not the tech actually allows for them, it doesn't!

Seeing as you are interested in exploring placebo/bias what better way to learn than to test your own bias (which is negatively biased towards hearing any difference with USB cables) - arrange a listening session with one of the TirnaHiFi members to test how strong your negative bias really is - you shouldn't hear a difference between USB cables, right?

Some attempt at auditioning/testing would prove you are actually interested in investigating this whole issue rather than as Alan says "not trying for yourself and then pontificating to those who have tried"

Why not address what Alan says "Those, however, who simply choose to reject the concept, and even the investigation of the concept simply because they don't like the idea, I cannot respect on a fairly deep level"

 

[maxflinn]

Seeing as you are interested in exploring placebo/bias what better way to learn than to test your own bias (which is negatively biased towards hearing any difference with USB cables) - arrange a listening session with one of the TirnaHiFi members to test how strong your negative bias really is - you shouldn't hear a difference between USB cables, right?

Some attempt at auditioning/testing would prove you are actually interested in investigating this whole issue rather than as Alan says "not trying for yourself and then pontificating to those who have tried"

Why not address what Alan says "Those, however, who simply choose to reject the concept, and even the investigation of the concept simply because they don't like the idea, I cannot respect on a fairly deep level"

I had thought we'd seen the last of this thread.

Anyway, John, as I've said before, I have absolutely no intention of demoing USB cables, because I know that *there can be no audible differences between them.

Subjective sighted listening is worthless as a means of providing evidence to the contrary, so why suggest it?

If you truly believe the subtle audible differences that many people report are actually due to the different cables, not the listener, then, even though that belief is completely illogical, why not organise some properly controlled blind tests?

And no, I'll not be partaking because I don't need to.

*Assuming they aren't faulty.

 

[Ciunas Audio]

I had thought we'd seen the last of this thread.

Anyway, John, as I've said before, I have absolutely no intention of demoing USB cables, because I know that *there can be no audible differences between them.

Subjective sighted listening is worthless as a means of providing evidence to the contrary, so why suggest it?

If you truly believe the subtle audible differences that many people report are actually due to the different cables, not the listener, then, even though that belief is completely illogical, why not organise some properly controlled blind tests?

And no, I'll not be partaking because I don't need to.

*Assuming they aren't faulty.

Oh, I thought you seemed to be expressing an interest in "exploration of why people perceive these subtle audible differences" but I guess I was wrong?

I'm not trying to "prove" anything to you, just helping you in following up what seemed to be your stated new goal "exploration of why people perceive these subtle audible differences". But if you just want to avoid the opportunity to study at first hand these biases in others then I guess Alan must be correct in his summation of your approach?

 

[maxflinn]

Oh, I thought you seemed to be expressing an interest in "exploration of why people perceive these subtle audible differences" but I guess I was wrong?

I'm not trying to "prove" anything to you, just helping you in following up what seemed to be your stated new goal "exploration of why people perceive these subtle audible differences". But if you just want to avoid the opportunity to study at first hand these biases in others then I guess Alan must be correct in his summation of your approach?

I felt it was a good thing that the subject changed from whether or not USB cables allowed for the reported differences, to the real reason for them - placebo.

Anyway, you know my position and so does Alan, and I know yours, so perhaps we might stick to the topic rather than discussing each other, who said what about who, etc, as that can lead to bickering and ill feeling which I'm sure the mods don't want. I prefer a good rational discussion.

Thanks.

 

[Ciunas Audio]

Ok,- you seem to prefer forum posting - fine, if chatting is what you want - forgive the interruption - do continue!

 

[Joe P]

Max,

Anyway, John, as I've said before, I have absolutely no intention of demoing USB cables, because I know that *there can be no audible differences between them.

If you truly believe the subtle audible differences that many people report are actually due to the different cables, not the listener, then, even though that belief is completely illogical, why not organise some properly controlled blind tests?

And no, I'll not be partaking because I don't need to.

Joe

 

[Fox]

Wow, that was awesome, and useful. I wish we had that kind of PhilEd at school instead of crappy Religious Education.

Incredible attention to filmation's (lack of) detail, now about the enterprise's juddering from left to right at the end, do I need a better hdmi cable?

 

[Joe P]

fox,

Bet you didn't know that Burt Reynolds had a brief stint as Mr. Kyle, the transporter chief.

Joe