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USB cable group test in HFN

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adamdea said:
I think you might be onto something: Serge, can you be a bit clearer- everyone's wondering whether maybe you think that people who believe they can hear differences between amplifiers are imagining it.
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Not really, adam.

People know that serge thinks he's right and that everyone else is an idiot.
 
I am sure the High Priest of Foo will be along any moment to purge us of our sin and quote from the gospel according to various cable sellers..
 
Purite Audio said:
There can be differences even between solid state amps, if one of the amps is not capable of driving the loudspeakers being used or if the amp has been ' designed ' to sound different.
Keith.
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Indeed, which is why every amplifier must be used according to the designers' intentions. As to amplifiers deliberately engineered to sound different, they're not amplifiers, they're effects boxes. Proper amplifiers have no sound, their output is merely a bigger version of what went in to the limit of their performance envelope, which these days is extraordinarily linear.

S
 
maxflinn said:
Demoing is of course something that any open minded person would want to do, before forming a personal opinion, in most cases, however, there's a wealth of information out there that explains that HDMI cables are simply not capable of offering varying levels of performance (Assuming they're not faulty, as one of yours seems to be).

I would be interested to know why in light of this, you still feel that only through demoing yourself, can you form an opinion, on something that even some HDMI cable manufacturers will tell you, there's nothing to form an opinion on.
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I thought we were discussing USB cables, then, out of the blue, you ask me about my opinion on HDMI cables, and essentially, my response is as above, that I have no 'view' at present, other than I'm open to the possibility that one might perform better than the other, even though I haven't seen this demonstrated yet, and that I might lack the calibre of visual gear to demonstrate it.

I don't remember expressing the opinion that you ascribe to me in the second paragraph. Where did this come from?

However, since you raised the subject, I'm also happy to admit the possibility that HDMI or USB cables might exhibit performance differences, even if the makers didn't design them to do so, and even if the makers can't see or hear those differences themselves.
 
aquapiranha said:
I think you will find that those who believe in magic sky people without a shred of evidence are the ones shouting in the town centre on a saturday morning. Not unlike those who claim to hear these differences in usb cables, again without a shred of proof. If there is one person on this forum who should be respected for his approach it is Serge, a realist who is not afraid to say it how it is. It has become the fashion lately to accuse those who seek the truth as 'religious' when they are anything but. It is those who claim to have golden ears that can hear things not measurable with equipment thousands of times more sensitive than human hearing who are religious. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the cable believers show so many similar traits to bible bashers that they should be called priests.
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I think I've agreed with everything Serge has said on this thread.
 
Serge,

Have you compared Naim preamps, say a 42.5 vs a 52 or a 82 powered by the power supply in a Naim amp vs powered separately by a SuperCap?

It's been ages since I have, but I have a difficult time reconciling what I've heard countless times in dems with the contention that all competent amps sound the same, providing they're not clipping.

I use Naim only as an example, as it's a well-known brand in the UK and one with which I've had some experience.

Joe
 
Joe P said:
Serge,

Have you compared Naim preamps, say a 42.5 vs a 52 or a 82 powered by the power supply in a Naim amp vs powered separately by a SuperCap?

It's been ages since I have, but I have a difficult time reconciling what I've heard countless times in dems with the contention that all competent amps sound the same, providing they're not clipping.

I use Naim only as an example, as it's a well-known brand in the UK and one with which I've had some experience.

Joe
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INCOMING!

Set phasers to kill.
 
aquapiranha said:
I am sure the High Priest of Foo will be along any moment to purge us of our sin and quote from the gospel according to various cable sellers..
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And who might that be?

I mean, if you're attaching labels, how many "pseudo-scientists" do we have here?
 
Joe P said:
Serge,

Have you compared Naim preamps, say a 42.5 vs a 52 or a 82 powered by the power supply in a Naim amp vs powered separately by a SuperCap?

It's been ages since I have, but I have a difficult time reconciling what I've heard countless times in dems with the contention that all competent amps sound the same, providing they're not clipping.

I use Naim only as an example, as it's a well-known brand in the UK and one with which I've had some experience.

Joe
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Doesn't have to be a 52 or 82 powered by an external supply. What you hear through the speakers is different when switching a 42.5 for a 32.5 with a 160.
 
Brian said:
Not really, adam.

People know that serge thinks he's right and that everyone else is an idiot. Some of you are in the wrong forum, trying to save people from themselves and all that.

It's a shame that idiotic forum whatever it's called suffered some problems a couple of years ago as the people who joined during that time have dragged pfm down on a daily basis every since. The general lack of respect is quite staggering.
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I can absolutely promise you, Brian, that I have no interest in saving anyone from anything.

It must be very annoying though to have people saying that those who think they hear differences between amplifiers are imagining it. In a properly free society people should only be allowed to think that people who think they hear the difference between amplifiers are not imagining it.
 
sergeauckland said:
Indeed, which is why every amplifier must be used according to the designers' intentions. As to amplifiers deliberately engineered to sound different, they're not amplifiers, they're effects boxes. Proper amplifiers have no sound, their output is merely a bigger version of what went in to the limit of their performance envelope, which these days is extraordinarily linear.

S
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You can't say that Serge- it's just rude.
 
formbypc said:
I thought we were discussing USB cables, then, out of the blue, you ask me about my opinion on HDMI cables, and essentially, my response is as above, that I have no 'view' at present, other than I'm open to the possibility that one might perform better than the other, even though I haven't seen this demonstrated yet, and that I might lack the calibre of visual gear to demonstrate it.

I don't remember expressing the opinion that you ascribe to me in the second paragraph. Where did this come from?

However, since you raised the subject, I'm also happy to admit the possibility that HDMI or USB cables might exhibit performance differences, even if the makers didn't design them to do so, and even if the makers can't see or hear those differences themselves.
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I'm sorry if I appeared to ascribe an opinion to you, I accept that you said you have yet to form one re HDMI cables.

I asked about HDMI cables as they're also digital cables, and as such, have no effect on image or audio quality, in the same way that digital audio cables have no effect on audio quality (Assuming all work).

I was curious given your apparent technical knowledge (Based on previous posts in this thread) whether you might believe that there can be differences between some types of digital cables, but not between others.

Anyway, thanks for your replies, I feel that I now know your position, which seems to be that you haven't looked into the scientific evidence re the potential for differences between digital cables, or demoed enough of them to have formed a personal, subjective opinion.
 
Joe P said:
Serge,

Have you compared Naim preamps, say a 42.5 vs a 52 or a 82 powered by the power supply in a Naim amp vs powered separately by a SuperCap?

It's been ages since I have, but I have a difficult time reconciling what I've heard countless times in dems with the contention that all competent amps sound the same, providing they're not clipping.

I use Naim only as an example, as it's a well-known brand in the UK and one with which I've had some experience.

Joe
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No, it's many years since I did any detailed listening to a Naim amplifier, but even then, an amp was an amp was an amp. Even Martin Colloms, to his great surprise I think, found that a Naim, a Quad and a TVA valve amp were indistinguishable when listened to blind. Consequently, I have no expectation that adding another power supply would make any difference if the performance with the original power supply was good enough for transparency.

I've never managed to hear any difference between competent solid-state amplifiers, be they Quad, MF, Meridian or whatever when listened to blind. Even the better valve amps (KT88 PPUL) were pretty much indistinguishable from any other amplifier. However, I had my preferences when I listened sighted, my favourite was the Mission 776/777 but I expect entirely down to the looks and build.

S.
 
Serge,

I've never managed to hear any difference between competent solid-state amplifiers, be they Quad, MF, Meridian or whatever when listened to blind.
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That doesn't square with my experiences, but hey-ho, I'm cool with that.

At least you're not saying that Captain Kirk is indistinguishable from Captain Picard in a blind test.

Joe
 
KirkvsPicardmotivator1.jpg


Joe
 
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