Ukraine III

[DimitryZ]

No. Unless you know something I don't, it's a random bloke letting off steam on the Internet. Pretty extreme, I think, so I have no intention of engaging with him. I'd say the same about KenniGT (or whatever he was called) who was urging us to drop a nuclear bomb on Moscow, not so long ago.

I've made my position clear many times on this thread. A large part of it is a meta-position: I do not think that (e.g.) inserting context or nuance to the discussion is tantamount to being an apologist for Putin. Any suggestion that it is (and there have been some) is a form of neo-McCarthyism and contrary to liberal values.

As for the substantive question of how the war is settled, that is for Ukraine and Russia to work out. I am happy that the West is showing support by imposing sanctions (assuming they are targeted and effective) and taking steps to ostracize Russia from the international community. I am less comfortable with sending (presumably selling) weapons to Ukraine but that's because the thought of arms companies profiting from mass slaughter turns my stomach. Your mileage may vary.

Finally, please don't @ me again, especially if you're going to put words into my mouth. I follow this thread quite closely and will engage with others, in good faith, as and when I feel the need.

That's the problem in a nutshell. It's always higher ideals, good principles and egalitarianism until reality intervenes.

It's always "peace talks" until your partner comes in and tells you that his peace proposal is for you to surrender or he will kill you and your family.

And it's utter inability to understand that this what Russia has become under Putin, even as it happily spits on your face.

 

[Tony L]

And it's utter inability to understand that this what Russia has become under Putin, even as it happily spits on your face.

I’m sure it is an aspect of what Russia has become, but the many thousands brave enough to face police state violence protesting proves it is very far from the whole picture. Given the nature of a dictatorship obtaining accurate statistics regarding public opinion is hard to gauge, but I’d bet support of Putin isn’t that hard, and it will likely sink further as the western sanctions really bite over time.

 

[vs music]

Is it giving you wood?

I have confidence in my country . And I will never escape from Russia . And if the war comes to my city , I will pick up the AK-74 again , as it was in my youth .

 

[Hook]

I have confidence in my country . And I will never escape from Russia . And if the war comes to my city , I will pick up the AK-74 again , as it was in my youth .

Can you please tell us where you get your news from?

 

[Colin L]

Can you please tell us where you get your news from?

i suspect it’s from Tucker Carlson on Fox

 

[DimitryZ]

I’m sure it is an aspect of what Russia has become, but the many thousands brave enough to face police state violence protesting proves it is very far from the whole picture. Given the nature of a dictatorship obtaining accurate statistics regarding public opinion is hard to gauge, but I’d bet support of Putin isn’t that hard, and it will likely sink further as the western sanctions really bite over time.

I know this better than anyone.

However, after 20 years of relentless propaganda with near-total and now total government control, Russians now support Putin as a substantial majority.

And, as we have seen over the last month, they are willing to kill.

 

[MUTTY1]

And I will never escape from Russia .

is this a Freudian slip? Probably not.

 

[Tony L]

“The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began — Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia” (Forbes on Twitter).

 

[gints]

I have confidence in my country . And I will never escape from Russia . And if the war comes to my city , I will pick up the AK-74 again , as it was in my youth .

Which war will come to your country?
Interesting, in which country you put your nose in when you picked up your AK-74 first time?

 

[-alan-]

I have confidence in my country . And I will never escape from Russia . And if the war comes to my city , I will pick up the AK-74 again , as it was in my youth .

I'm sure you must have a lot of empathy with your neighbouring Ukrainian citizens then - the ones standing up for their rights, and doing exactly what you would propose to do in the same situation.

Or perhaps it's different - is one not supposed to fight back when a 'Special Operation' comes to a city near you ?

 

[DimitryZ]

I have confidence in my country . And I will never escape from Russia . And if the war comes to my city , I will pick up the AK-74 again , as it was in my youth .

The only way the war comes to you is with an American, French, British or Israeli IC/IRBM. And that would be because your leader, Putler, started a third WW from his bunker, after an unsuccessful attempt to enslave a free Ukraine.

And please do stay at home (easy now, no flights). The world will sigh with relief if we don't see another Putinoid Russian ever again.

 

[MUTTY1]

Hold on folks. He may be paid for the number of posts he generates…

 

[paulfromcamden]

I’d bet support of Putin isn’t that hard, and it will likely sink further as the western sanctions really bite over time.

Sad to say I think that's wishful thinking. Many Russians sincerely believe The West is out to get Russia. Hardly surprising after twenty years of consuming pro-Putin discourse. I can well believe our friend VS represents the views of many ordinary Russians.

 

[Hook]

i suspect it’s from Tucker Carlson on Fox

Am genuinely curious. I am trying to decide if he is truly brainwashed and believes what he says, or if he knows what’s really happening in Ukraine and this is just his clumsy attempt at gaslighting.

Also, I asked him this simple question once before and was ignored.

 

[Mullardman]

Who is this 102 year old Russian who is itching to use his AK-74?

 

[gints]

Somebody who left his mind in Afghanistan 1979 where AK-74 first came in service. He probably have pretty good idea how it will end for him in Ukraine.

 

[Tony L]

Sad to say I think that's wishful thinking. Many Russians sincerely believe The West is out to get Russia. Hardly surprising after twenty years of consuming pro-Putin discourse. I can well believe our friend VS represents the views of many ordinary Russians.

I just don’t think we know at this point. The amount of protest is encouraging IMO. Remember this isn’t like protest here; there you risk serious punishment beatings, arrest, imprisonment etc, even death, yet thousands have taken to the streets. To my mind that means millions are thinking it but don’t want their heads kicked in right this minute by some Stasi thugmoron.

One thing our Putin fanboy upthread unintentionally highlights is connectivity with the outside world is still open. He can reach a UK based audio forum, so the internet is clearly still wide open (at least to some). That hopefully means real information is still there for the taking. I’m sure Putin does have many followers. Fascism is always popular with some, but I’m prepared to bet huge numbers of other people want him gone by whatever means is necessary.

 

[TheDecameron]

I have confidence in my country . And I will never escape from Russia . And if the war comes to my city , I will pick up the AK-74 again , as it was in my youth .

You sound like a caricature. What I’ve noticed previously is that individuals who identify with this type of posturing as you’re doing now- me guns, me force, ‘you’ll see’, ‘150% sure’ usually have fragile, not very well developed egos. They have to borrow it from elsewhere.
I’m sure if you’re indulged any more here you’ll just become even more aroused.

 

[Hook]

I just don’t think we know at this point. The amount of protest is encouraging IMO. Remember this isn’t like protest here; there you risk serious punishment beatings, arrest, imprisonment etc, even death, yet thousands have taken to the streets. To my mind that means millions are thinking it but don’t want their heads kicked in right this minute by some Stasi thugmoron.

One thing our Putin fanboy upthread unintentionally highlights is connectivity with the outside world is still open. He can reach a UK based audio forum, so the internet is clearly still wide open (at least to some). That hopefully means real information is still there for the taking. I’m sure Putin does have many followers. Fascism is always popular with some, but I’m prepared to bet huge numbers of other people want him gone by whatever means is necessary.

That’s what I was trying to figure out. My initial impression was just ignorance, or perhaps at most a bit of willful ignorance. Much can be forgiven of someone who only has access to state-run media. But now I’m thinking that’s not the case. This guy knows exactly what’s going on, and his posts are a deliberate, albeit ridiculous, provocation.

I’ve read that FB is now banned in Russia.

 

[Cav]

Sad to say I think that's wishful thinking. Many Russians sincerely believe The West is out to get Russia. Hardly surprising after twenty years of consuming pro-Putin discourse. I can well believe our friend VS represents the views of many ordinary Russians.

I would not take the uncorroborated statement of someone who lives where(?) as evidence of anything. Nor would I accept your assertion of what most Russians think about the West without some substantive evidence.

Seems to me (evidence free) that Russia has become more Westernised as financial and commercial restrictions have relaxed since the USSR disappeared. Those most affected by financial sanctions will be those most influential in the corrupt executive. Such people probably do not give a fig about Ukraine other than the inconvenience it is causing them personally.