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Tune Dem Experiences

Craig B said:
I worked in the business, and it was a selling tactic. Still is, and works like a charm. First you tell the punter how to listen, then you demonstrate whilst sprinkling brand bias all over the listening room with your toes.
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And I thought the guy was trying to help me choose a sytem that would give more long term listening enjoyment.

I also now understand Elwood's comment, who IIUC worked in a TD dealership. They did seem to get frustrated when I wouldn't buy the item with the higher dealer TD rating. I guess people who actually listen and make their own decisions are a "lost cause" for them.


FWIW the final nail in the LInn coffin for me was the day I visited Linn's HQ. They had a pair of Komris playing in reception - sounded like a transistor radio with a subwoofer - very low on the engagement factor and, dare I say it, lacking tune!
 
S-Man said:
And I thought the guy was trying to help me choose a sytem that would give more long term listening enjoyment.

I also now understand Elwood's comment, who IIUC worked in a TD dealership. They did seem to get frustrated when I wouldn't buy the item with the higher dealer TD rating. I guess people who actually listen and make their own decisions are a "lost cause" for them.


FWIW the final nail in the LInn coffin for me was the day I visited Linn's HQ. They had a pair of Komris playing in reception - sounded like a transistor radio with a subwoofer - very low on the engagement factor and, dare I say it, lacking tune!
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Wot no prat?
 
david ellwood said:
People on a HiFi forum accusing dealers of talking bollocks and bullshit is hypocrisy on a level I’d not thought possible.
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Salesmen vs. customers. I go with the latter. They are the ones that ultimately sift the good from the bad long after the initial profit motive phase has passed. The internet has totally changed the whole hobby by distributing and democratising information from the underlying science and technology through to end-users direct experience. The 1980s audio scene feels like a cult to me now!
 
Mr Pig said:
There is so much bollocks in the audiophile world that sometimes I just don't know what to do with it all? I have equipment racks and record boxes but I may drown in bollocks one day if not careful. Why do I have to deal with so much?
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The solution is entirely within your grasp. Don't read threads with titles where bollocks (in your opinion) is likely!

Maybe you are drawn to bollocks like a moth to a flame?
 
As part of my Linn phase, I had a Kolector preamp for a while. The AP guys told me that this was a very musical preamp. Although of course the Kairn was just as tuneful but with more detail.

I cannot deny that the main melody of a track was easy to follow, but IMO it did this by missing all the fine detail thereby simplifying the music. Maybe Linn could call this "The Nursery Rhyme Effect"?
Anyway, my point is that maybe it's possible to have a piece of kit that has high TD rating but is not satisfying in the long term?
 
S-Man said:
As part of my Linn phase, I had a Kolector preamp for a while. The AP guys told me that this was a very musical preamp. Although of course the Kairn was just as tuneful but with more detail.

I cannot deny that the main melody of a track was easy to follow, but IMO it did this by missing all the fine detail thereby simplifying the music. Maybe Linn could call this "The Nursery Rhyme Effect"?
Anyway, my point is that maybe it's possible to have a piece of kit that has high TD rating but is not satisfying in the long term?
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Are you being serious?
 
S-Man said:
Yes, actually I am.

Is it not reasonable that if information is missing from a recording, the main melody might be easier to follow?
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I agree. I was fully able to enjoy my favorite music via a table top radio prior to inheriting my late Father's '70s Pioneer system. Funny enough, that receiver, un-serviced but for some bulbs and an output transistor replacement, does the same via sins of omission relative to the amps I've collected since.
 
kensalriser said:
Is the forum collectively responsible for talking bollocks?
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A complete tosspot as everyone is well aware. My epi-fanny came when I rang my Linn dealer to get some advice on using a different cartridge to replace the Akiva, the 'master salesman', regional manager took the call. What a disgrace, you could literally hear the red lining of the suit and his walrus physique! He suggested the next Linn cart, that was when I finally checked out.
 
S-Man said:
Yes, actually I am.

Is it not reasonable that if information is missing from a recording, the main melody might be easier to follow?
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Sorry but the whole thing is just ridiculous. Linn brainwashed its customers. Many magazines do the same.
 
tuga said:
And now you’re no longer able to?

I can enjoy music in the car, on my laptop, on TV. I can ‘follow a tune’ too 🤣

This thread is hilarious.
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I am certain that I could, only the old Philco AM/FM mono died a premature death that no radio should be expected to endure (i.e. via my inquisitive 'how do things work' nature).
 
There seems to be a trend at the moment for attacking the major contribution that Linn and to some extent Naim made to audio in that period. Graphs and arm-chair engineering jargon were a major part of the magazine review and sales content until someone suggested that only musical enjoyment mattered. We have a tendency to assess kit by listening to treble and bass and soundstage and what-have-you - aspects of sound rather than music - because we're short of time.

I see the tune-dem method as a way to reset your approach to listening during demonstrations and ask yourself if you're enjoying the music itself, rather than assessing the accuracy of sounds. We've all heard expensive kit that gets glowing reviews but leaves us bored or irritated. If you put up with that in a dem, don't be surprised if it's still boring or irritating when you get it home and have time to endure it at leisure. Tune dem helps you to concentrate on the enjoyment of music rather than other factors which can creep to the fore and distract from the fundamental purpose of spending all that money. I always try to assess kit this way. Is it fun? Can I hear what the musicians are actually playing? Do they seem to be co-operating with intelligent intent? Am I getting out of the recording what they attempted to put in? Why was this recorded in the first place?

I still think that tune-dem - listening for access to musical content rather than just accurate sounds - is the best way to choose kit, and I'm glad that those people went to the effort to re-establish this principle when it was in danger of getting lost in all of the other technical noise.

I have a DG boxed LP recording in which they include the overture from a pre-war recording to show how far things have advanced. It's an own goal. For some reason the pre-war recording is played with more charm and less ego. The orchestra seems to know how to get out of the way more and let the score do the talking. The pre-war recording is more musical despite vastly less technical accuracy in the recording. That's what you need to listen for: the music, not the recording; and that's how I'm reminded to listen by the concept of tune dem. It's the straightest route to long term satisfaction.
 
krenzler said:
Could it not just be frequency response where the initially exciting amp perhaps had a bump in the midrange or presence region to grab your attention and seem more detailed leading to fatique long-term?
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That’s interesting! My A&R A60 has an artificial bump in the presence band which I like because it brings guitars to the fore & deepens the soundstage a bit. Yet the A60’s not a “detail” monster, nor does it make the music more exciting. It’s not the best amplifier in the world; it may not even be my favourite at home. It does however give the music such a unified & easy flowing quality that it appears to speak for itself.
 
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