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Tune Dem Experiences

S-Man

S-Man

StrivingON
I was thinking about the other threads where people took the pish out of somebody for choosing bits of kit based on the "Tune Dem".

My first full-on experience of the TD was about 20 years ago when I visited Audio Projects in Leeds to try out some Linn stuff. Audio Projects were pretty far up the Linn/Naim extremism ladder (they really needed a cherry picker)!

The salesman told me the principle and I tried and tried and tried to apply it. I just couldn't hear the tunefulness hierachy. He appeared to be able to determine the TD rating within seconds of a new piece of kit being used. Of course I had no way of checking this because I coudn't hear what he said he was hearing! I was suspicious that his TD enthusiasm increased with more expensive kit though.

Anyway I bought a pair of Linn Ninkas to replace my ES14s and set about building a system round them. I ended up with aktiv Stinkas using a pair of LK140s and a Kairn. I borrowed an Ikemi for ages and decided it was not really any better than my Arcam Alpha+.

The chap from AP came round and installed the speakers using some sort of TD appraisal and moving the speakers inch by inch to and from the front wall along with incremental adjustments of the bass gain. He kept telling me I needed an Ikemi 🥱

After living with the system for quite some time I came to the conclusion that the sound was too bassy and tonally flat (as opposed to sharp). I turned the bass gain down a few dB and IMO the sound became a lot more tuneful. So how come I couldn't do the TD to save my life but I found my settings more tuneful than the expert's?


Move forward 20 years to a recent experience (and thankfully the Linn stuff proved to be an aberration) . I was assessing two amplifiers. I had been using amp A for a while and was very happy. Thought I'd give amp B a whirl and was stunned by how clear and detailed it was, sat there playing tune after tune and thinking how great it sounded. However, after a couple of days I realised that I was not enjoying my system during casual listening and in particular random music on internet radio was just not engaging. On swapping back to amp A, the engagement came back and I realised most of detail was still there.

So what causes this change in engagement. Is amp A more "musical"? Well yes, I would say it is. But the only way I seem to be able to tell is with a Long Term Tune Dem.

Maybe some people can perform a TD very quickly, it seems obvious that we don't all hear things the same. I know that I need considerable time to perform my LTTD and I wouldn't mock others for using whatever method works for them to assess kit.
 
My only criticism of tune dem is that it wasn't really as much about how to listen as it was about how to sell. Never had a Linn demo with the salesman out of the room. Lots of single speaker dems, never a zero salesman one. Always within line of sight, and always tapping their toe along when the Linn bits were on.
 
S-Man said:
Move forward 20 years to a recent experience (and thankfully the Linn stuff proved to be an aberration) . I was assessing two amplifiers. I had been using amp A for a while and was very happy. Thought I'd give amp B a whirl and was stunned by how clear and detailed it was, sat there playing tune after tune and thinking how great it sounded. However, after a couple of days I realised that I was not enjoying my system during casual listening and in particular random music on internet radio was just not engaging. On swapping back to amp A, the engagement came back and I realised most of detail was still there.

So what causes this change in engagement. Is amp A more "musical"? Well yes, I would say it is. But the only way I seem to be able to tell is with a Long Term Tune Dem.
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Could it not just be frequency response where the initially exciting amp perhaps had a bump in the midrange or presence region to grab your attention and seem more detailed leading to fatique long-term?
 
krenzler said:
Could it not just be frequency response where the initially exciting amp perhaps had a bump in the midrange or presence region to grab your attention and seem more detailed leading to fatique long-term?
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Very unlikely. Both amps measure flat in the audio bandwidth, have low o/p impedance and low distortion.
 
david ellwood said:
Tunedem or not , if you can’t hear that an Ikemi is miles better than an Alpha + you’re probably a lost cause.
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Well done David! You get first prize for the type of post which is basically useless.

FWIW, I can hear the difference between a Cambridge audio CD2 and an Alpha+, although it’s not that significant. The CD2 is better than an Ikemi!
 
Craig B said:
My only criticism of tune dem is that it wasn't really as much about how to listen as it was about how to sell. Never had a Linn demo with the salesman out of the room. Lots of single speaker dems, never a zero salesman one. Always within line of sight, and always tapping their toe along when the Linn bits were on.
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Strange. According to one official definition of the "Tune Method" on lejonklou, "Many people find it easiest to use the Tune Method while standing outside the room that the music is being played in." So perhaps your mistake was listening to the speakers in the same room.

 
AndyU said:
Strange. According to one official definition of the "Tune Method" on lejonklou, "Many people find it easiest to use the Tune Method while standing outside the room that the music is being played in." So perhaps your mistake was listening to the speakers in the same room.

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To be fair, I (we) should be making a distinction between 'tune dem' and 'tune method'.

IME, the latter was born of the former.
 
AndyU said:
Isn't the "tune method" the technique employed during a "tune dem"?
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I worked in the business, and it was a selling tactic. Still is, and works like a charm. First you tell the punter how to listen, then you demonstrate whilst sprinkling brand bias all over the listening room with your toes.

Regardless, I was a lousy salesman, preferring instead to fix a customer's deck for them, rather than convince them to buy a specific new one. If they wanted a new record deck, then, fine. I certainly had my preferences, but I always tried to let them figure things out with their own ears and wallets.
 
There is so much bollocks in the audiophile world that sometimes I just don't know what to do with it all? I have equipment racks and record boxes but I may drown in bollocks one day if not careful. Why do I have to deal with so much?
 
Craig B said:
I worked in the business, and it was a selling tactic. Still is, and works like a charm. First you tell the punter how to listen, then you demonstrate whilst sprinkling brand bias all over the listening room with your toes.
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I've had that happen to me... Not that different from reading a magazine review, though.
 
I’ve never had the pleasure. I always aim for long-term satisfaction; if your system still surprises you after a couple of years then you’ve done it right.
 
Craig B said:
I worked in the business, and it was a selling tactic. Still is, and works like a charm. First you tell the punter how to listen, then you demonstrate whilst sprinkling brand bias all over the listening room with your toes.

Regardless, I was a lousy salesman, preferring instead to fix a customer's deck for them, rather than convince them to buy a specific new one. If they wanted a new record deck, then, fine. I certainly had my preferences, but I always tried to let them figure things out with their own ears and wallets.
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"To be, or not to be, that is the question
Whether 'tis nobler in mind to suffer
The bollocks and bullshit of outrageous audiophile marketing
Or to take tonearms against a sea of tune dems..."
[Bill Shakestoe, Reformed Linn Dealer]
 
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