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Tory leadership failure Part V: Rishi ‘Infosys’ Sunak

DonQuixote99 said:
Dog whistles and faux concern put a post in the later category. One of the foulest trolls I recall was a fellow, full of faux concern, questioning a parapalegic person about the use of mechanical devices to evacuate feces from his bowels. The goal was totally to embarrass the guy, but just going by the bare words of the text, you couldn't exactly prove it. A reasonable but admittedly subjective standard must be applied, to find the post was in bad faith and eligible for removal.
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The depths of some internet troll culture is just beyond comprehension. The mechanism you describe is very real and hit absolutely mind-bending levels of cruelty and persecution with the whole ‘Chris Chan’ thing. It is referred to as ‘milking a LOLcow’. I’m reluctant to link to anything aside from ContraPoints’ Cringe video on that one as it is just incomprehensibly nasty and the scale extraordinary.


Here’s the Contrapoints video. I’ve linked to it before as it is a hell of an eye opener to modern culture, and as ever Natalie navigates her way through it with remarkable intellect and empathy along with much humour. Highly recommended, as is all of her stuff (this is one of the best IMHO). The ‘Chris Chan’ thing is around 25 minutes in IIRC.

There are definitely things our generation need to know. So much of the stuff we see all around us today stems from a culture so much of the middle-aged and older mainstream is entirely ignorant about, e.g. one can track the rise of Trump, and the alt-right back via QAnon, Breitbart, all the vile Andrew Tate types etc, to ‘gamergate’, and I bet some folk here are barely aware what that was (it largely passed me by too). I’m not suggesting it was the whole thing by any means, but it was certainly a factor and launched some very destructive attitudes that are going nowhere. When the history books are written for our time that one will certainly be a chapter, or at least a very substantive footnote.

PS I’m not attacking internet culture as for all the horrendous gamergate, 4chan, Chris Chan, Libs Of Tiktok persecution type stuff it has also launched many of the most intelligent documentary makers and political commentators I’ve ever seen. I’m certainly of the view a substantial percentage of the best stuff being produced today in all fields is on YouTube and often made by people less than half my age, though every now and again the mainstream knocks one right out of the park such as the wonderful Ken Burns USA And The Holocaust documentary. There really is some absolutely amazing stuff at present. It is just, like the modern music scene, not coming up from where one might expect.
 
Tony L said:
The depths of some internet troll culture is just beyond comprehension. The mechanism you describe is very real and hit absolutely mind-bending levels of cruelty and persecution with the whole ‘Chris Chan’ thing. It is referred to as ‘milking a LOLcow’. I’m reluctant to link to anything aside from ContraPoints’ Cringe video on that one as it is just incomprehensibly nasty and the scale extraordinary.


Here’s the Contrapoints video. I’ve linked to it before as it is a hell of an eye opener to modern culture, and as ever Natalie navigates her way through it with remarkable intellect and empathy along with much humour. Highly recommended, as is all of her stuff (this is one of the best IMHO). The ‘Chris Chan’ thing is around 25 minutes in IIRC.

There are definitely things our generation need to know. So much of the stuff we see all around us today stems from a culture so much of the middle-aged and older mainstream is entirely ignorant about, e.g. one can track the rise of Trump and the alt-right back via QAnon, Breitbart, all the vile Andrew Tate types etc, to ‘gamergate’, and I bet some folk here are barely aware what that was (it largely passed me by too). I’m not suggesting it was the whole thing by any means, but it was certainly a factor and launched some very destructive attitudes that are going nowhere. When the history books are written for our time that one will certainly be a chapter, or at least a very substantive footnote.

PS I’m not attacking internet culture as for all the horrendous gamergate, 4chan, Chris Chan, Libs Of Tiktok persecution type stuff it has also launched many of the most intelligent documentary makers and political commentators I’ve ever seen. I’m certainly of the view a substantial percentage of the best stuff being produced today in all fields is on YouTube and often made by people less than half my age, though every now and again the mainstream knocks one right out of the park such as the wonderful Ken Burns USA And The Holocaust documentary. There really is some absolutely amazing stuff at present. It is just, like the modern music scene, not coming up from where one might expect.
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Wulf! That will take some processing. The Chris Chan saga, of which I never knew, starts at about 31:00, btw. The internet empowers odd people to do serious bad things, while others watch. I experience cringe. And all the more cringe at the thought that some people seek and want cringe.
 
paulfromcamden said:
One bit of related good news yesterday - the UK government finally announced it will ban trans conversion therapy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64304142

They have previously repeatedly refused a ban - leading to the cancellation of the government's first ever LGBT conference when over a 100 organisations due to attend stated they would boycott the event.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61002448
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They're only doing it to look good re Scotland.
Edit....less bad.
 
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Photo opportunity at the Cromarty Firth Freeport announcement.

326019649_488775770076022_7442422386048228413_n.jpg
 
Interesting thread by Lord Falconer examining the reasons set out by the government for invoking Section 35 to block the Scottish Gender Recognition Act.

TLDR; the government has overruled the Scottish Parliament because, it claims, it wouldn't be able to cope with the administrative burden an estimated 525 annual applications would create.

https://twitter.com/LordCFalconer/status/1615400867015819278
 
DonQuixote99 said:
I would wish to say I'm with you as an ally. But since you responded like this to me, I'm just going to observe that 'questioning' can be a pretty low bar for declaring 'anyone' a bigot. Because 'bigot' sounds very serious, sounds like cause to slag unmercifully, seek removal from pfm, etc. So I guess I want assurance that there's questioning and then there's questioning, if you know what I mean, and that it's not a matter of zero tolerance for 'anyone.'
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Forgive my terseness. I don't have time to go into this in depth. To me, questioning trans rights is no different to questioning the rights of gay people or black people as minorities. All are human. OTOH asking about trans rights in good faith is a different, benign matter.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Interesting thread by Lord Falconer examining the reasons set out by the government for invoking Section 35 to block the Scottish Gender Recognition Act.

TLDR; the government has overruled the Scottish Parliament because, it claims, it wouldn't be able to cope with the administrative burden an estimated 525 annual applications would create.

https://twitter.com/LordCFalconer/status/1615400867015819278
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They are clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel to find reasons to be seen to be opposing it, I guess they must think that the strength of opposition in their target markets is such that it will do them more good than harm.

By the way there may (note my choice of modal verb! I am not a lawyer) be a precedent for the Scotland/England relation if the law in Scotland remains, which is Tasmania/rest of Australia. In fact I believe there was some kerfuffle about self determination in Tasmania because some groups wanted to exclude biological men from lesbian safe spaces. Here

Tasmania Rules Against Women-Only Spaces for LGB Alliance (afterellen.com)
 
paulfromcamden said:
Interesting thread by Lord Falconer examining the reasons set out by the government for invoking Section 35 to block the Scottish Gender Recognition Act.

TLDR; the government has overruled the Scottish Parliament because, it claims, it wouldn't be able to cope with the administrative burden an estimated 525 annual applications would create.

https://twitter.com/LordCFalconer/status/1615400867015819278
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Certainly puts this, from the Guardian’s Martin Kettle, into perspective. Kettle argues that Sunak is neither waging culture war nor trying to put the SNP in their place, but rather addressing a constitutional problem in good faith, to strengthen democracy. In fact it’s Sturgeon who’s waging culture war by being divisively progressive:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-scotland-gender-recognition-bill-rishi-sunak

Swathe of articles like this from the defenders of British liberalism. The worst people.
 
Seanm said:
Certainly puts this, from the Guardian’s Martin Kettle, into perspective. Kettle argues that Sunak is neither waging culture war nor trying to put the SNP in their place, but rather addressing a constitutional problem in good faith, to strengthen democracy. In fact it’s Sturgeon who’s waging culture war by being divisively progressive:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-scotland-gender-recognition-bill-rishi-sunak

Swathe of articles like this from the defenders of British liberalism. The worst people.
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I thought Kettle’s article was a piece of faux balance more typical of the BBC, entertaining the old “ the SNP, they’re only doing this to provoke us” self-referential guff. It’s as if no other parties to this union can think autonomously and legislate for their own communities.

Starmer is now out on a limb because his branch manager in Scotland seems to have discovered he’s an active participant in another legislature from Starmer and he put his name to the Gender Recognition bill.
 
mandryka said:
They are clearly scraping the bottom of the barrel to find reasons to be seen to be opposing it, I guess they must think that the strength of opposition in their target markets is such that it will do them more good than harm.

By the way there may (note my choice of modal verb! I am not a lawyer) be a precedent for the Scotland/England relation if the law in Scotland remains, which is Tasmania/rest of Australia. In fact I believe there was some kerfuffle about self determination in Tasmania because some groups wanted to exclude biological men from lesbian safe spaces. Here

Tasmania Rules Against Women-Only Spaces for LGB Alliance (afterellen.com)
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LGB Alliance is widely viewed within the trans community as a far-right hate group. It is one of many covert right-wing entities funded by dark money and located at the now infamous 55 Tufton St. The home of Institute for Economic Affairs, Centre for Policy Studies, the TaxPayers’ Alliance, Global Warming Policy Foundation, New Culture Forum, and BrexitCentral. More here on Open Democracy. Do not take anything emanating from this address as other than right-wing propaganda rhetoric likely funded by money from far outside of the UK.

PS If anyone wants more information there is a fair bit on Katy Montgomerie’s YouTube channel amongst many other places. LGB Alliance is a front for some very unsavoury far-right politics. It is absolutely not what it’s name suggests.
 
The Gammon Gauleiter extends his franchise,

xJxZAy3.jpg


Will 30p Lee defect back to Labour for the GE or phone up for a Job Centre appointment the day after the election?
 
Ben Bradshaw's response to the mother of a trans individual.

The current process for obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate is slow, stigmatising, humiliating, complicated and expensive and takes between 2 and 5 years. It is high time that a system of self-declaration for trans people was introduced. The introduction of a system of self-identification will result in no change in the day to day lives of most people.

Trans rights are human rights. We must ensure trans people can access the support and services they need, and do everything we can to tackle discrimination, hatred and bigotry against the trans community.

Worth reading in full:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgende..._response_from_exeter_mp_ben_bradshaw_re_the/

P.S. Recommend anyone spend some time in the TransgenderUK reddit to understand the shit trans folk go through.
 
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