Stunsworth
pfm Member
My main problem with Chet Baker Sings is Chet Baker’s singing. It’s the only Tone Poet I’ve considered not buying. All IMHO of course.
Tone Poet Blue Notes
- Thread starter poco a poco
- Start date
My main problem with Chet Baker Sings is Chet Baker’s singing. It’s the only Tone Poet I’ve considered not buying. All IMHO of course.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
The Pacific version of Chet Baker Sings is on Qobuz. I’ll give it a whirl.
scotty38
pfm Member
Yes, correct and I did that and that's why I cancelled, I didn't really like it. All the positivity is telling me I must be missing something so will have to give it another go....
poco a poco
I'm Jim
I'm beginning to think I could have saved a bit of money here ...
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Well with the next two I only pre ordered one, 'Money Jungle' as I thought I could pass on the 'Prisoner'. Although I love Herbie Hancock's earlier stuff, by 1969 I am much less enthusiastic. Don't try to help me change my mind again.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
I'm beginning to think I could have saved a bit of money here ...
If you bought it from Amazon send it back, the returns process is very simple.
Theo
pfm Member
Well with the next two I only pre ordered one, 'Money Jungle' as I thought I could pass on the 'Prisoner'. Although I love Herbie Hancock's earlier stuff, by 1969 I am much less enthusiastic. Don't try to help me change my mind again.
'The Prisoner' is great soundtrack stuff: I really enjoy it, but I'll stick with my original BN RVG copy.
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Well I just got an email from Amazon to say delivery will be today, but now at about £27.50, about £3.50 off my pre order price. It's now at £31.29. Still that might not convince me to keep it.
mikechadwick
pfm Member
I listened to this on Qobuz when it was first announced as a TP release. Got to say that imho it hasn’t aged well. A definite miss for me.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
I had a listen on Qobuz today and decided to pass on this one. I have a Chet Baker singing album already, and that’s enough. They seem to love this release on Steve Hoffman though.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
I’m listening to the Grant Green. Wow.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
Add another ‘wow’ for the Hank Mobley.
mikechadwick
pfm Member
The latest releases are certainly superb sounding albums
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Well I have just played the Chet Baker and it is a keeper for me.
At first I was put off by his voice and lack of pitch control. Then I was seduced by the really excellent sound quality. I played this mono record with my mono cartridge and it does sound very good. Not in a spectacular way, but in a very natural one with great micro-dynamics. You hear the slight intake of breath in his voice at the end of phrases and the slight chestiness to his voice that makes it all seem very natural and also vulnerable. The macro-dynamics are there though as well, but only when needed.
Then I began to 'get it' I think. The fragility of the voice and also of some of his trumpet phrases suits these love songs very well and I think there was some careful programming going on with the track order of these songs that is quite moving. Listen to the fragility of the nature of love on the first side - particularly 'My Ideal' where Russ Freeman plays Celeste rather than piano that adds to the effect that Bakers voice has. Freeman's piano playing on other tracks reminds me of Ahmad Jamal's by the way and that's a good thing in my book.
Move onto the second side where the fragility in the voice continues, but changes slightly and seems more intimate (closer to the mike). Then when you get to 'My Funny Valentine' the mood changes, there's something quite 'dark' about his interpretation here, but that also seems to hint at his acceptance of the nature of love (for him). Interesting to compare this track to the another unusual voice that is loved or hated, Ricky Lee Jones on 'A Girl At Her Volcano'. Very different, but that I love her version as well. So then as we move on the band swings a bit harder and the voice gets a bit stronger as he comes to terms with his acceptance - so really you just 'Look For The Silver Lining' in the end.
May be I'm over interpreting all this and just looking for a 'Silver Lining' in this recording, but it seems to me this recording, mastering and pressing retains all the nuances that makes this music worthwhile and perhaps can be missed on lesser examples.
At first I was put off by his voice and lack of pitch control. Then I was seduced by the really excellent sound quality. I played this mono record with my mono cartridge and it does sound very good. Not in a spectacular way, but in a very natural one with great micro-dynamics. You hear the slight intake of breath in his voice at the end of phrases and the slight chestiness to his voice that makes it all seem very natural and also vulnerable. The macro-dynamics are there though as well, but only when needed.
Then I began to 'get it' I think. The fragility of the voice and also of some of his trumpet phrases suits these love songs very well and I think there was some careful programming going on with the track order of these songs that is quite moving. Listen to the fragility of the nature of love on the first side - particularly 'My Ideal' where Russ Freeman plays Celeste rather than piano that adds to the effect that Bakers voice has. Freeman's piano playing on other tracks reminds me of Ahmad Jamal's by the way and that's a good thing in my book.
Move onto the second side where the fragility in the voice continues, but changes slightly and seems more intimate (closer to the mike). Then when you get to 'My Funny Valentine' the mood changes, there's something quite 'dark' about his interpretation here, but that also seems to hint at his acceptance of the nature of love (for him). Interesting to compare this track to the another unusual voice that is loved or hated, Ricky Lee Jones on 'A Girl At Her Volcano'. Very different, but that I love her version as well. So then as we move on the band swings a bit harder and the voice gets a bit stronger as he comes to terms with his acceptance - so really you just 'Look For The Silver Lining' in the end.
May be I'm over interpreting all this and just looking for a 'Silver Lining' in this recording, but it seems to me this recording, mastering and pressing retains all the nuances that makes this music worthwhile and perhaps can be missed on lesser examples.
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poco a poco
I'm Jim
There are a few days when you think your HiFi can't get much better at conveying the music to you. Today is one. So to quote Stunsworth on the other two releases for the TP 'Coming Your Way' WOW!
This is good. If I thought Hank Mobley was in my room on 'Poppin' then Stanley Turrentine has stepped a couple of feet forward carrying most of the larger Englewood studio ambiance with him this time. Tommy Turrentine sounds great as well, lovely 'blat' but no edge to his trumpet. If you want to be critical there are a few faults with the recording that are almost certainly down to Van Gelder adjusting on the fly. A bit of mike bleed picking up the left hand of Parlan's piano at times and an odd pan potting of parts of Harewood's drum kit during 'Thomasville', but nothing that really detracts from the music.
So I compared some of the tracks to my USA 1989 vinyl original. On its own it's still pretty good. Ron McMaster did a pretty good with his digital transfer. It conveys the music well and retains all of the dynamics without any digital edge, but what you get with the Tone Poet are layer upon layer of subtle detail. The original plays about 3db louder than the TP so I had to adjust for that and I should perhaps have altered my VTA for the 140g pressing, but I didn't think I needed to go that far. The sound stage is narrower on the original Stanley Turrentine appearing slightly to the right of my left speaker now. In its self no bad thing given how left / right stretched these early Van Gelder's that were monitored by him in mono are, but the depth of the sound stage is far less than the TP. Stanley and Tommy are now in the plane of the loudspeakers with some studio depth stretching behind, but not as much as on the TP. What you really miss most of though is the incredible pool of studio ambiance that stretches out into your room with the TP. This sort of improvement is usually aributed an AAA thing over digital, but then my speakers are doing an A to D conversion for their DSP and its still very apparent.
This extra level of fine detail also scores with Haywoods brushes on cymbals with the 'air' around them which can still can be clearly heard, but in the correct balance above the horns even when they are playing with some force. There are other places where this amount of correctly balanced extra detail works as well. Throughout you can better hear Stanley's embouchure on his sax. There is one point towards the end of the second bar of his solo on the Ballard 'Someone To Watch Over Me' where there is almost a low 'fart like' sound from his sax. On the TP you can clearly hear this detail as of the vibrations of his reed.
Even though the original is not bad you can really tell from comparison the wonders that Joe Harley and Kevin Gray are working with this Tone Poet series. All this latest batch seems to be a high point at the moment. Long may it continue.
This is good. If I thought Hank Mobley was in my room on 'Poppin' then Stanley Turrentine has stepped a couple of feet forward carrying most of the larger Englewood studio ambiance with him this time. Tommy Turrentine sounds great as well, lovely 'blat' but no edge to his trumpet. If you want to be critical there are a few faults with the recording that are almost certainly down to Van Gelder adjusting on the fly. A bit of mike bleed picking up the left hand of Parlan's piano at times and an odd pan potting of parts of Harewood's drum kit during 'Thomasville', but nothing that really detracts from the music.
So I compared some of the tracks to my USA 1989 vinyl original. On its own it's still pretty good. Ron McMaster did a pretty good with his digital transfer. It conveys the music well and retains all of the dynamics without any digital edge, but what you get with the Tone Poet are layer upon layer of subtle detail. The original plays about 3db louder than the TP so I had to adjust for that and I should perhaps have altered my VTA for the 140g pressing, but I didn't think I needed to go that far. The sound stage is narrower on the original Stanley Turrentine appearing slightly to the right of my left speaker now. In its self no bad thing given how left / right stretched these early Van Gelder's that were monitored by him in mono are, but the depth of the sound stage is far less than the TP. Stanley and Tommy are now in the plane of the loudspeakers with some studio depth stretching behind, but not as much as on the TP. What you really miss most of though is the incredible pool of studio ambiance that stretches out into your room with the TP. This sort of improvement is usually aributed an AAA thing over digital, but then my speakers are doing an A to D conversion for their DSP and its still very apparent.
This extra level of fine detail also scores with Haywoods brushes on cymbals with the 'air' around them which can still can be clearly heard, but in the correct balance above the horns even when they are playing with some force. There are other places where this amount of correctly balanced extra detail works as well. Throughout you can better hear Stanley's embouchure on his sax. There is one point towards the end of the second bar of his solo on the Ballard 'Someone To Watch Over Me' where there is almost a low 'fart like' sound from his sax. On the TP you can clearly hear this detail as of the vibrations of his reed.
Even though the original is not bad you can really tell from comparison the wonders that Joe Harley and Kevin Gray are working with this Tone Poet series. All this latest batch seems to be a high point at the moment. Long may it continue.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
Well, I’ve changed my mind and decided to take a punt on the Chet Baker.
rough edges
Sapere Aude
I’ve been listening to Chet Baker sing for probably 15 years, so his voice and style were already very familiar to me. I’m glad some of you folks decided to persevere with this album. It’s definitely worth it, and his style and voice will grow on you...
mikechadwick
pfm Member
I guess I’m going to have to eat my words - I’ll check out the Chet Baker again today