advertisement


'There’s endless choice, but you’re not listening’

paulfromcamden said:
I dread to think what would happen if I had a whole house I could fill with records!

I have capacity for about 2,500 in our flat and I suspect I'm a bit over that as the piles in the living room and spare room are growing... time for another big cull.
Click to expand...

Until I bought this house about 21 years ago I’d always lived in flats, almost always 1 bed flats (though nowhere without a half-decent living/hi-fi room). My issue here is I’ve now filled the house, though a fair chunk of that is the pfm shop which occupies more than a room on its own as I have a lot of unlisted classical, CDs etc stashed all over the place. The hi-fi and other stuff is a bit out of hand too and could do with a bit of a cull, e.g. I’m never going to do anything sensible with the lone Wharfedale Sand Filled Baffle or large wind up gramophone occupying much of the landing. When I eventually retire I’ll downsize substantially. If I lost all the shop stock and get down to two systems and I could easily fit in a smaller place. My own collection is not crazy, currently 3874 items and that includes all the CDs etc. If I hired a really good joiner in advance of moving that would all easily fit in a room, maybe a room and a hallway or landing. The problem I have currently is my shelving is awful and I have a lot of books too. I’m sure I could easily get myself into a 2 bed flat or bungalow, it would just require some better storage design.
 
It’s interesting to go back; read the original article which triggered this thread and then reflect on where we are now.

First thing to note is that the article itself is clickbait. The paper has no perspective on these things. 1 week you'll get an article on the joys of streaming and the next it’s this. One week it’s about the return of vinyl and the next it’s about the environmental impact and so on. The OP, as might we all, selected the week they read an article they agreed with.

Second thing to note Is that, as ever, technology has gutted quality journalism and this is no different. It’s a bunch of anecdotes with zero data. To what extent were people quitting Spotify at that time? We‘ll never know. To what extent was it free users distracted by adverts or paid for users? No clue. Did those users then find another purpose for music or another format or did they, as above, find out that actually the format isn’t the issue.

What followed the OP was simply pages of people expressing their own preferences and biases. Little objective reflection appears.

Here‘s my own 10p worth then.

I started with vinyl. Anyone who tells you they listened to vinyl all the way through all the time was either an audiophile or a liar. I would read the weekly music papers and then go hunt. I would absolutely play some stuff to death. Other stuff? Sorry but those crackles on your vinyl were often where you lifted the needle to skip that track 4 you never did really like. We have romanticised and fetishised vinyl to the point we almost have false memory syndrome. The reality is that if you lived through the 1970s vinyl was significantly recycled; often dreadful quality and, like all formats, sowed the seeds of its own destruction. Getting up off the bed after 20 minutes to turn off constituted no form of relaxation ever. I absolutely acknowledge the significant cultural loss of “sides“ because of CD, downloads and streaming but that’s only really of significance for music made since the advent of those formats. For anything before that? You know which track ended side 1. If it matters that much then pause your listening for 5. The format encourages a change of habit. You are not compelled to comply.

The other reality here, seldom acknowledged, is that throughout the peak years of vinyl the music papers were full of musicians weekly bemoaning how vinyl did no justice to their music. How it absolutely did not refiect what they played. Nowadays it’s a given that analogue is superior in some circles. Some of the saner conversations around this recognise that it’s not. It’s just different and a personal preference. To some degree and in some circles it looks little more than an affectation but that’s a separate discussion.

Indeed just last week the quiet voice of Robin Guthrie of the Cocteau Twins talked eloquently about how he listened to new vinyl of their recordings and he continued to have that disconnect. It simply didn’t sound like what he as a musician heard whereas the digital versions did. Sadly we continue to divide these discussions on partisan articles of faith lines.

I loved CD. Didn't really connect with it until 1990 when bitstream players came along and made it start to sound like music but then adopted it full on. Loved the drop in noise floor. Loved not having to get up to turn over. Loved the resurrection of entire artists catalogues I’d have never heard otherwise. Still, it also sowed the seeds of its own destruction (in the loosest sense). Will always dislike albums over 45 minutes. Always dislike the lazy lack of a booklet. Just a track listing? No thanks. Then again, how many of those booklets were unreadable? Of course this cues up the vinyl advocates who even now pretend they sat there with a glass of wine poring over every minute detail of the innards of every inner sleeve and booklet without ever acknowledging that most albums in the past came with a plain white inner and were very much more convenient than a CD for skinning up on.

I took a long time to move to streaming. Local or otherwise. There are plenty of ideological objections to be claimed - artists paid a pittance etc. - but the truth was it took me some years because I simply couldn’t find a streamer which matched my CDP. Why bother moving at all? Seeds of own destruction etc. I had hit the point where CDs were no longer storable in our living space and were starting to appear in front of the hi-fi; next to the radiator etc. It was untenable.

Since I’ve moved to streaming I’ve used playlists to do no more than reconstruct some albums in their original vinyl order e.g. The Wishing Chair by 10,000 Maniacs which changed order for CD release and never sounded right. I listen via Qobuz and use Tidal for just under 40 albums I’ve never found on Qobuz. Son largely uses Tidal and spews playlists like vomit. I’ve around 1,700 CD rips and have downloaded albums where I wanted to see what high-res did for them/me or I’ve found stuff unavailable on vinyl, CD etc. and that I desperately want to keep.

When I first moved to CD the whole “you don’t listen/engage argument” appeared. Thing was, if anything, I listened more. I discovered artists in a depth previously unaavailable. The Star Time boxed set by James Brown followed by the subsequent rerelease of every album he ever put out was a particular joy which springs to mind. I had the option to skip tracks like my friends and I all did as teenagers and well into our 20s but quickly found myself not bothering because, ironically, the technology made it a bit more painful to do than just lifting and dropping a needle. Now yes there was a period where I started to play new CDs once and then file them away. There was also a period where they’d get played once and returned to the shop to swap for something “better”. I soon realised I was losing the joy and after a little bit of self-reflection realised that it was as much about changing life priorities as it was the technology. I then made myself listen to every new purchase at least 4 times. The joy come back.

The argument that this lack of engagement is to do with streaming itself strikes me as largely a nonsense. How you listen is a choice. If you’ve left Spotify or whatever that’s just a choice. What’s the evidence base for pinning it on streaming itself? I’m not seeing it. Middle aged men cream themselves and start flame wars over the joys of Roon and recommendation engines like Roon radio. Kids buy vinyl to look at and display as much as play. Personally I still take most of my recommendations from the now monthly music mags; a couple of friends where we have some overlap in tastes and more recently from colleagues choices in our monthly album group in work.

Since I started streaming I do indeed find myself listening to stuff once and thinking a very blunt “no”. Largely those are as they always were. Stuff I’d have previously paid £10 for and then realised my tastes didn’t coincide with that critic at all. I see that as a way of saving money I’d have previously seen as wasted. Equally though I find myself listening to far more stuff where I’m thinking “Not sure about that/don’t really get it”. Add it to favourites and come back when in a mood to hear new stuff. I‘ve always been happy to have stuff slow burn. Bought Murmur by R.E.M. and didn’t get it at all. I woke up 1 morning and play number 19 finally did it for me. More recently it took 7 plays of the Arooj Aftab album for it to click. Those 7 plays were on Qobuz.

There will of course be some variations but articles like this are click bait and serve no real purpose beyond allowing people to justify their own prejudices/preferences. If your preference is vinyl or CD or streaming please don’t use it as a stick to beat others with because of some inherent superiority of the format. Most people hear barely a sliver between them and by most let’s acknowledge that it’s an overwhelming number and we are overwhelmingly in the tiniest of minorities. Equally, if you think a format is impacting your enjoyment or ability to listen end to end let's not pin it automatically on the format. There is so much more in play. It could actually be that your kit isn’t great; that your network needs looking at; that your hearing is changing and so much more. It might just be that, regardless of format, you were never the person who listened all the way through even though you’ve told yourself you were.

Final thought is that I’m more excited by new music now via streaming than I have been for years. There’s a small joy to the Friday new releases on Qobuz that I’ve not got from a record shop and some of the miserable incumbants therein for years.
 
Still steadfastly avoiding streaming, partly as I like tangibility of physical product, partly as I think streaming does not reward the artists properly... records and CDs were bad enough in this respect, but streaming is just taking the piss. I know 99% people don't really give a shit about the latter, but as a one time content creator on the web it bothers me that people don't get rewarded properly for their creativity.

As for finding new music... Internet radio, Bandcamp and YouTube suffice for me... if I like something enough I'll buy the physical copy, if none is available then I'll hope it one day is. Yes, having thousands of CDs and records is an anomaly for most, but it works for me... although I totally get why streaming works for so many others... my partner included, she uses Amazon Music all the time these days. I have tried, but it just does not engage me.

Oh and CD vs vinyl... no clear winner for me... some things sound better on CD and others on vinyl... they're interchangeable as far as I am concerned.
 
tiggers said:
Still steadfastly avoiding streaming, partly as I like tangibility of physical product, partly as I think streaming does not reward the artists properly... records and CDs were bad enough in this respect, but streaming is just taking the piss. I know 99% people don't really give a shit about the latter, but as a one time content creator on the web it bothers me that people don't get rewarded properly for their creativity.

As for finding new music... Internet radio, Bandcamp and YouTube suffice for me... if I like something enough I'll buy the physical copy, if none is available then I'll hope it one day is. Yes, having thousands of CDs and records is an anomaly for most, but it works for me... although I totally get why streaming works for so many others... my partner included, she uses Amazon Music all the time these days. I have tried, but it just does not engage me.

Oh and CD vs vinyl... no clear winner for me... some things sound better on CD and others on vinyl... they're interchangeable as far as I am concerned.
Click to expand...

You can buy, download and stream locally stored files. It pays as much as a CD and is less damaging to the environment than both streaming from a remote service and physical media.
And in my experience I can get the best sound from a CD by streaming a ripped file locally.

Many people buy used LPs and CDs; how do you feel about that? (since it doesn't reward the artists at all)
 
tuga said:
You can buy, download and stream locally stored files. It pays as much as a CD and is less damaging to the environment than both streaming from a remote service and physical media. And in my experience I can get the best sound from a CD by streaming a ripped file locally.
Click to expand...

Yep, I get all that, but can't be bothered with setting it all up and ensuring things are backed up etc. I know it makes sense and given I work in innovation it's not like I'm change averse... yeah maybe I need to embrace it some day. You're right about the environment for sure.
tuga said:
Many people buy used LPs and CDs; how do you feel about that? (since it doesn't reward the artists at all)
Click to expand...
It is what it is and I see your point... I'd like to (naively) hope that if people buy a secondhand LP or CD they will buy a new one when the artist releases new material, but appreciate that only works for artists still recording. What I'd really like is better remuneration for the artists across the board.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top