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The Tory leadership race- that’s quite a bestiary there.

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Seanm said:
I think the point, for those not waving sticks at hippies, is that the prisons are full of young black people who've done less that what Gove has admitted to, because people like him are pushing an irrational and vindictive drug policy. I mean, in Gove's case, he was literally writing articles in support of tough drug laws during his period of uh youthful experimentation.
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And white people presumably? Anyway, unless your work involves you in narcotics in some way where are you getting this info from, stats? So, you look at stats, and you see a disproportionate amount of YBP in prison for possession of drugs offences. The thing is though that YBP and YWP are not stupid, when dealing, they will carry up to the amount required for prosecution of supply. So judges being liberal fellows these days, will let an offender off his first one or two 'possessions', but next time he's in court, with police evidence he was selling drugs - but again not enough to be prosecuted for supply, the judge jails him - rightfully - for possession in lieu of being unable to prosecute for supply. I personally have no qualms whatsover with recreational drug use, but addiction destroys people and towns, and dealers - of whatever hue - make their living off the misery of these wretches.
 
Seanm said:
I think the point, for those not waving sticks at hippies, is that the prisons are full of young black people who've done less that what Gove has admitted to, because people like him are pushing an irrational and vindictive drug policy. I mean, in Gove's case, he was literally writing articles in support of tough drug laws during his period of uh youthful experimentation.
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Not just writing articles, but bringing in a lifetime ban for teachers who used his drug of choice: https://mobile.twitter.com/stevelapsl/status/1137641366266290177

VAT receipts count for 6% of GDP according to this guy: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1137466282452967424

Why is this creature in the running to become our PM?
 
gustavm said:
Are you sure of this? Genuine question - are stats available for numbers of people imprisoned for such offences?
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Is it not more likely that the offence was ‘possession with intent to supply’ though? ie a larger quantity than simply for personal use.
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Frankiesays said:
And white people presumably? Anyway, unless your work involves you in narcotics in some way where are you getting this info from, stats? So, you look at stats, and you see a disproportionate amount of YBP in prison for possession of drugs offences. The thing is though that YBP and YWP are not stupid, when dealing, they will carry up to the amount required for prosecution of supply. So judges being liberal fellows these days, will let an offender off his first one or two 'possessions', but next time he's in court, with police evidence he was selling drugs - but again not enough to be prosecuted for supply, the judge jails him - rightfully - for possession in lieu of being unable to prosecute for supply. I personally have no qualms whatsover with recreational drug use, but addiction destroys people and towns, and dealers - of whatever hue - make their living off the misery of these wretches.
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I'm no expert on any of this guys. I was answering Rich's (oddly) narrow question about whether there are people in prison for doing less than snorting a line of coke: yes there are, although not many - there were 421 custodial sentences passed down in 2016 according to this report for personal possession of class B drugs.

The wider point is that Gove was a habitual user of class A drugs at the same time as vocally supporting an irrational, authoritarian approach to drug use. It's not just a matter of prison but of policing, and here policy feeds into other aspects of institutional racism in a way that serves to criminalise young black people.

Anyone who's interested in this will find Release's website a useful resource:

https://www.release.org.uk/press-release-racial-disparities-drug-policing

Eastwood goes on to say: “Black people are more likely to get a criminal record than white people, are more likely to be taken to court and are more likely to be fined or imprisoned for drug offences because of the way in which they are policed, rather than because they are more likely to use drugs. Despite calls for police reform of stop and search little has changed in the last 3 decades, this is why the Government needs to take action and change the law. Decriminalisation of drug possession offences would end the needless stop and search of hundreds of thousands of innocent people every year and eliminate a significant source of discrimination with all its damaging consequences.”
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If Gove, or Stewart for that matter, had any integrity or political courage they'd use this as an opportunity to shift the conversation in a more positive direction. They won't and can't because they are hypocrites who have willingly made themselves the champions of prejudiced, vindictive authoritarians.
 
Seanm said:
I'm no expert on any of this guys. I was answering Rich's (oddly) narrow question about whether there are people in prison for doing less than snorting a line of coke: yes there are, although not many - there were 421 custodial sentences passed down in 2016 according to this report for personal possession of class B drugs.
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You are once again relying on stats to draw your conclusions. I know for a fact that people dealing in class a drugs to hardcore addicts, and the police know that they are doing exactly that, can often not be sentenced for supply, simply because of the amount of drugs found on them. A recent case - a dealer was caught by police selling drugs, not enough to be charged for supply, got off with a caution, caught again a few days later for dealing, again not enough to be charged for supply, but was sentenced to 3 months for possession. Look that up in the stats, seems harsh? 3 months for just taking a bit of coke? No, 3 months for selling horrible hard drugs like crack or heroin to absolute wretches. The police are so stretched nowadays that they don't have the resources to implement strict laws on drug taking.
 
Frankiesays said:
You are once again relying on stats to draw your conclusions. I know for a fact that people dealing in class a drugs to hardcore addicts, and the police know that they are doing exactly that, can often not be sentenced for supply, simply because of the amount of drugs found on them. A recent case - a dealer was caught by police selling drugs, not enough to be charged for supply, got off with a caution, caught again a few days later for dealing, again not enough to be charged for supply, but was sentenced to 3 months for possession. Look that up in the stats, seems harsh? 3 months for just taking a bit of coke? No, 3 months for selling horrible hard drugs like crack or heroin to absolute wretches. The police are so stretched nowadays that they don't have the resources to implement strict laws on drug taking.
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"You are once again relying on statistics instead of partial anecdotal evidence" is some take. Got any anecdotes about stop and search?

What I take from your story is that your local bobbies are involved in an endless, expensive and absolutely futile struggle with people whose own lives might be better spent doing something else, thanks to an irrational system maintained purely for the benefit of hypocrites like Gove. Better to rethink it all from the ground up I'd have thought than waste time fuming about people getting away with it.
 
MikeMA said:
Who remembers Purchase Tax as the UK sales tax was called? Initially set at 33.33% in 1940. Various rates were applied subsequently with higher rates on luxury goods until it was abolished in 1973 when VAT was introduced.

When everyone was moaning about how complicated VAT was I can remember academic economists being wheeled out to explain why it was so much better than a simple sales tax. I can't now remember any of the arguments.

My bet is that VAT will not be replaced.
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My dad is an accountant. he said it was better for business. I also cannot remember his reasons.

It must have got a bit complicated though. Many make a luxury product out of commodity items.
 
Frankiesays said:
You are once again relying on stats to draw your conclusions. I know for a fact that people dealing in class a drugs to hardcore addicts, and the police know that they are doing exactly that, can often not be sentenced for supply, simply because of the amount of drugs found on them. A recent case - a dealer was caught by police selling drugs, not enough to be charged for supply, got off with a caution, caught again a few days later for dealing, again not enough to be charged for supply, but was sentenced to 3 months for possession. Look that up in the stats, seems harsh? 3 months for just taking a bit of coke? No, 3 months for selling horrible hard drugs like crack or heroin to absolute wretches. The police are so stretched nowadays that they don't have the resources to implement strict laws on drug taking.
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Mikey, alcohol is just as bad- look at the state you got yourself into.
 
Reducing the rate of VAT is good for the less well off, it is a tax on spending & the poor spend more of their weekly income as a percentage.
 
MikeMA said:
Who remembers Purchase Tax as the UK sales tax was called? Initially set at 33.33% in 1940. Various rates were applied subsequently with higher rates on luxury goods until it was abolished in 1973 when VAT was introduced.
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It’s all part of the ‘return Britain to the glory days’ scheme. First the EU, then VAT. Then we can reintroduce the guinea, ban the pill, tighten up the Obscene Publications Act again, and before long everything will be in black and white and the Empire will be Great again.
 
Purchase tax was not charged on S/H goods so S/H engagement rings and Rolexes were very popular in jewellers.
 
Vinniemac said:
Not just writing articles, but bringing in a lifetime ban for teachers who used his drug of choice: https://mobile.twitter.com/stevelapsl/status/1137641366266290177
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Most likely being vindictive because a high proportion of teachers are left wing, note no one ever suggests people in finance should have a lifetime ban for taking cocaine, dearie me no that will never happen!

We won’t get a serious debate about drugs until alcohol advertising, sponsorship and lobbying are banned also the City makes far too much money from the illegality as well.
 
Who would have though that Prime Minister 'Cokehead' Gove would have tripped up before Johnson? An early faller.

Hunt must now be back in front as the strong favourite for the non-Johnson vote.

I don't think Javid's (official) Team Saj nonsense will go down well. All a bit too 'ITV talent show'. In fact, it's massively ITV talent show.

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At least Javid is dull enough not to have done coke. He looks like more of a porn man.
 
russel said:
Most likely being vindictive because a high proportion of teachers are left wing, note no one ever suggests people in finance should have a lifetime ban for taking cocaine, dearie me no that will never happen!

We won’t get a serious debate about drugs until alcohol advertising, sponsorship and lobbying are banned also the City makes far too much money from the illegality as well.
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I spent my entire career in teaching. Whilst
a few of us were "left wing" the majority were pin money Tories.
 
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