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The Tory leadership race- that’s quite a bestiary there.

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richgilb said:
People are in prison for snorting coke?
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People (usually some shade of brown) are in prison for possessing a joint

richgilb said:
I'm thick. This is not a loaded question. But why does it? If a customer comes to my warehouse, a 5% discount for cash is still attractive to me even though I paid vat on the input.10% is borderline attractive, based on my net contribution is about 10%.
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Awkward if you buy 100 widget kits (showing on your suppliers tax too) and only declare sales of 50 finished widgets to the VAT man. They are looking for this sort of thing.
 
davidsrsb said:
People (usually some shade of brown) are in prison for possessing a joint


Awkward if you buy 100 widget kits (showing on your suppliers tax too) and only declare sales of 50 finished widgets to the VAT man. They are looking for this sort of thing.
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Yes I suppose.

The drug thing still does not seem right to me. Gove I believe had no previous. Please someone show me a case where anyone of any colour goes to prison in UK for a first time offence of smoking a spliff.
 
richgilb said:
Yes I suppose.

The drug thing still does not seem right to me. Gove I believe had no previous. Please someone show me a case where anyone of any colour goes to prison in UK for a first time offence of smoking a spliff.
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Several "no previous" occasions at social events quoth he...
 
Hang on, still not clear. If you have sales tax inspector,s the same checks apply. You bought 100 widgets, you declared sales of 50. Where are the other 50?
 
In my experience, which is rather more than i'd like it to be, the VAT inspectors know exactly where to look for fraud.

We're a small business but last inspection was three days and it ended up with them owing me a fiver.

I've had a lot of offers to engage in fraud, but value a good night's sleep in freedom too highly.
 
richgilb said:
Hang on, still not clear. If you have sales tax inspector,s the same checks apply. You bought 100 widgets, you declared sales of 50. Where are the other 50?
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Depends on how your input purchase shows on the radar. In the past sales tax has been applied only on final sale to the public, sales tax does not work well with complex supply chains like cars, where there are many steps, with a small value add at each step
 
davidsrsb said:
People (usually some shade of brown) are in prison for possessing a joint
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Do you have evidence of this? I'd be very surprised (and shocked) if anyone is in prison for possession of one joint (as opposed to amounts clearly larger than for personal use, or evidence of dealing).

I know several magistrates, and they see custodial sentences as very much an absolute last resort for any type of offence. (Needless to say, regardless of ethnicity.)
 
davidsrsb said:
Depends on how your input purchase shows on the radar. In the past sales tax has been applied only on final sale to the public, sales tax does not work well with complex supply chains like cars, where there are many steps, with a small value add at each step
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Yet America gets cars out for not much money. Certainly less than Europe.

I would have guessed that car production with thousands of sales tax charges on every component multiplied several times through the production process would result in a 10 grand car costing more like 30.

But it doesn't. So in what way does it not work well?
 
gustavm said:
Do you have evidence of this? I'd be very surprised (and shocked) if anyone is in prison for possession of one joint (as opposed to amounts clearly larger than for personal use, or evidence of dealing).

I know several magistrates, and they see custodial sentences as very much an absolute last resort for any type of offence. (Needless to say, regardless of ethnicity.)
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Also still waiting for something believable to back this up!
 
dweezil said:
In my experience, which is rather more than i'd like it to be, the VAT inspectors know exactly where to look for fraud.

We're a small business but last inspection was three days and it ended up with them owing me a fiver.

I've had a lot of offers to engage in fraud, but value a good night's sleep in freedom too highly.
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And, I rather suspect there will be developing use of AI to analyse returns, and cross check against supplier returns, etc, in the foreseeable future.
 
richgilb said:
Right..I don't see why it needs a plan and costings. They know what the % figure they gather is already, it's probably online everywhere. Output less input. Just apply that figure to the product or service.

No doubt it is a bit more complicated than that....and so I'm all ears. Someone once tried to tell me a sales tax is not a good idea. I can't remember what the argument was but I was not convinced by their claim that it does not work in the US. I hate VAT. It is the most damaging part of my business. I spend far too much time and money on it.
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Who remembers Purchase Tax as the UK sales tax was called? Initially set at 33.33% in 1940. Various rates were applied subsequently with higher rates on luxury goods until it was abolished in 1973 when VAT was introduced.

When everyone was moaning about how complicated VAT was I can remember academic economists being wheeled out to explain why it was so much better than a simple sales tax. I can't now remember any of the arguments.

My bet is that VAT will not be replaced.
 
I would like to take this opportunity to say that I have never applied to be leader of the Conservative party. I admit someone did put a piece of paper in front of me when I was at university and asked me to sign it, but I don’t know what it was. It might have been a reading library application form. In any event, I sneezed and it blew away.
 
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